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#166
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Re: Building a 10,000 rpm NA engine.
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#167
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Re: Building a 10,000 rpm NA engine.
Just thought of it, I seem to remember rally Bob telling me Jack had to get new cams build from scrath.
Was that right Bob???
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1995 - SVX 700,000 K Mine, DMS Struts to lift car 2in. Tyres Wrangler Silent Armor 235/70R16, PBR Radiator. 6 speed with DCCD and R180 rer diff, Heavy duty top strut mounts front and rear. Speedo correction box fitted. New stero (gave up on the old one). Back seat removed and 2 spare tyres fitted for desert driving. ECUTune SC sitting in the box for the next SVX. 1992 - SVX 255 K Wife (Want to stay Married so not allowed to fit SC) 1992 - SVX Pearl with black roof race car roll cauge etc ready to race. Ex Tasman Targa car. 1995 - SVX Green low k mint condiation. 1995 - SVX Rally car, ex Matts car. Now to be used on track. 1992 - SVX red & Black being converted to Mid Engine. 1995 - SVX Red 143,000 bit rough. Owned 5 others Subaru back to a 1974 1400 GSR. |
#168
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Re: Building a 10,000 rpm NA engine.
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Frank Aragona's original camshafts were also welded/reground by Web, however right around the time he found the stock crankshaft's limits, he said the cams started to become an issue. Frank's later generation cams were custom billet pieces. While he wouldn't give me the exact specs, he did say valve lift was around .550" (13.97 mm). That seems to correspond to my own flow bench results, the heads flowed quite well up to about that point. Valve lift is one of the easiest ways to gain airflow with the EG33. Even a bone-standard EG33 head gains ridiculous airflow with larger valve lifts. Going from .250" lift to .475" lift will net a 35% gain in intake port flow, and a 20% gain in exhaust port flow. If the stillborn rally-prepped 'EG38' ever gets built for my other friend Andrew, I can assure you the valve lift will be nearer to .550" than to Jack's .444"/.460" combo. And those cams will be billet with adjustable cam gears. |
#169
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Re: Building a 10,000 rpm NA engine.
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After Frank finished with the engine what ever happen to it. I was wondering if he parted the car out and we could buy the crank. Or failing that we could find out were he got it made to get a price for one. Tony
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1995 - SVX 700,000 K Mine, DMS Struts to lift car 2in. Tyres Wrangler Silent Armor 235/70R16, PBR Radiator. 6 speed with DCCD and R180 rer diff, Heavy duty top strut mounts front and rear. Speedo correction box fitted. New stero (gave up on the old one). Back seat removed and 2 spare tyres fitted for desert driving. ECUTune SC sitting in the box for the next SVX. 1992 - SVX 255 K Wife (Want to stay Married so not allowed to fit SC) 1992 - SVX Pearl with black roof race car roll cauge etc ready to race. Ex Tasman Targa car. 1995 - SVX Green low k mint condiation. 1995 - SVX Rally car, ex Matts car. Now to be used on track. 1992 - SVX red & Black being converted to Mid Engine. 1995 - SVX Red 143,000 bit rough. Owned 5 others Subaru back to a 1974 1400 GSR. |
#170
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Re: Building a 10,000 rpm NA engine.
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Would you see any issue running similar to a Porsche GT3 cam profile (270-300 spec duration / 12 mm lift) made from custom billet cams? Ignore the IRIS valve. |
#171
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Re: Building a 10,000 rpm NA engine.
Well struck a problem with the dry sump, 2 of the suction pump get supplied from each head. Problem is there is only 30mm from the rocker cover to the side of the engine bay. In other words I had planned to install the suction hose in the side of the rocker cover now it will have to be in the base which will be far more complicated due to the narrowness of the rocker cover.
Still haven't got my head around it but will see what develops. Also time to start working out were the extra oil is going to go, currently the drill in the oil galleries etc is only capable of handling 56l per minute so I need twice the flow throught the bearings etc. I had a look at the cam oil porting and I think they need to be increase. Also of concern is that one of the beaings on the ehaust cam does't get supplied with oil so I will need to find a way around that problem. Tony
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1995 - SVX 700,000 K Mine, DMS Struts to lift car 2in. Tyres Wrangler Silent Armor 235/70R16, PBR Radiator. 6 speed with DCCD and R180 rer diff, Heavy duty top strut mounts front and rear. Speedo correction box fitted. New stero (gave up on the old one). Back seat removed and 2 spare tyres fitted for desert driving. ECUTune SC sitting in the box for the next SVX. 1992 - SVX 255 K Wife (Want to stay Married so not allowed to fit SC) 1992 - SVX Pearl with black roof race car roll cauge etc ready to race. Ex Tasman Targa car. 1995 - SVX Green low k mint condiation. 1995 - SVX Rally car, ex Matts car. Now to be used on track. 1992 - SVX red & Black being converted to Mid Engine. 1995 - SVX Red 143,000 bit rough. Owned 5 others Subaru back to a 1974 1400 GSR. |
#172
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Re: Building a 10,000 rpm NA engine.
Project update,
Things have developed on this project as it turns out Bazza lives only 1 1/2 hours away from me so we have cut a deal together to develop this enigne as a joint project. He has plenty of experiance and contacts with Subaru engines abd cars. As a result of this agreement I feel confident that we can speed the project up. Right now he and I are sorting out the steps and look of the first engine we will build up. A interesting problem developed with the dry sump. I am using a Dailey Pump and was get parts from Bill when he found out I was building a dry sump for the EG33 he cut off my parts supply so now I have to get them from ebay when I can find them. Pretty stupid as I am not in competation with him but thats the way he feels. Tony
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1995 - SVX 700,000 K Mine, DMS Struts to lift car 2in. Tyres Wrangler Silent Armor 235/70R16, PBR Radiator. 6 speed with DCCD and R180 rer diff, Heavy duty top strut mounts front and rear. Speedo correction box fitted. New stero (gave up on the old one). Back seat removed and 2 spare tyres fitted for desert driving. ECUTune SC sitting in the box for the next SVX. 1992 - SVX 255 K Wife (Want to stay Married so not allowed to fit SC) 1992 - SVX Pearl with black roof race car roll cauge etc ready to race. Ex Tasman Targa car. 1995 - SVX Green low k mint condiation. 1995 - SVX Rally car, ex Matts car. Now to be used on track. 1992 - SVX red & Black being converted to Mid Engine. 1995 - SVX Red 143,000 bit rough. Owned 5 others Subaru back to a 1974 1400 GSR. |
#173
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Re: Building a 10,000 rpm NA engine.
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Tom
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www.svxfiles.com The first SuperCharged SVX, the first 4.44 gears, the first equal length headers, the first phenolic spacers, the first Class Glass fiberglass hood, the first with 4, 4.44s in his driveway Fiberglass Hood thread My locker 4.44 Swap link |
#174
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Re: Building a 10,000 rpm NA engine.
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Does anyone know how much a kit just bought directly from him would cost? Or how much the EJ ones cost?
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'94 Laguna Blue LSi ~159k.......JDM ultra short-geared 3.900 STi Version 7 6-speed w/ Cobb shortshifter, ECUtune 244,8.1mm/256,9.1mm i/e cams, group N motor mounts, '97 grille, JDM clear corners, Momo JDM Legacy GT steering wheel, apkarian's LED tails, silver STi BBS wheels, PWR radiator, redstuff pads f/r, drilled/slotted rotors, bontragerworks rsb #18, Koni/GC 450f/375r coilovers, Megan Racing adjustable lateral links, KMac c/c plates, Stebro exhaust, ECUtune 1v5, Optima battery in the trunk where it belongs. Turbo project '97 Ebony LSi ~137k #036.......Power mode mod, JDM clear corners, BBS wheels. AUX/pocket mod Now a mod "over there" ............Photo album |
#175
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Re: Building a 10,000 rpm NA engine.
Hi Tom,
Its Bill Dailey the owner, I appricate your help. I got some parts on Ebay last week which should get me throught for now. I will let you know in the future. Thanks. Tony
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1995 - SVX 700,000 K Mine, DMS Struts to lift car 2in. Tyres Wrangler Silent Armor 235/70R16, PBR Radiator. 6 speed with DCCD and R180 rer diff, Heavy duty top strut mounts front and rear. Speedo correction box fitted. New stero (gave up on the old one). Back seat removed and 2 spare tyres fitted for desert driving. ECUTune SC sitting in the box for the next SVX. 1992 - SVX 255 K Wife (Want to stay Married so not allowed to fit SC) 1992 - SVX Pearl with black roof race car roll cauge etc ready to race. Ex Tasman Targa car. 1995 - SVX Green low k mint condiation. 1995 - SVX Rally car, ex Matts car. Now to be used on track. 1992 - SVX red & Black being converted to Mid Engine. 1995 - SVX Red 143,000 bit rough. Owned 5 others Subaru back to a 1974 1400 GSR. |
#176
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Re: Building a 10,000 rpm NA engine.
Here is the info I got from Bill, before the relationship dried up.
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At that point relationship ended. Can I say that with higher lifting Cams etc, a engine doing 10k there is no way in the world the timing belt can then drive the oil pump. I think he was confused but if you drive it from the front of the water pump it will be all over. Thus ends my experiance with Bill Dailey due to the lack of responce. Tony
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1995 - SVX 700,000 K Mine, DMS Struts to lift car 2in. Tyres Wrangler Silent Armor 235/70R16, PBR Radiator. 6 speed with DCCD and R180 rer diff, Heavy duty top strut mounts front and rear. Speedo correction box fitted. New stero (gave up on the old one). Back seat removed and 2 spare tyres fitted for desert driving. ECUTune SC sitting in the box for the next SVX. 1992 - SVX 255 K Wife (Want to stay Married so not allowed to fit SC) 1992 - SVX Pearl with black roof race car roll cauge etc ready to race. Ex Tasman Targa car. 1995 - SVX Green low k mint condiation. 1995 - SVX Rally car, ex Matts car. Now to be used on track. 1992 - SVX red & Black being converted to Mid Engine. 1995 - SVX Red 143,000 bit rough. Owned 5 others Subaru back to a 1974 1400 GSR. Last edited by Dessertrunner; 07-15-2012 at 04:30 PM. |
#177
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Re: Building a 10,000 rpm NA engine.
Looked at the oil path in the engine and I need to do some major mods to get more oil throught the system. My plan is to measure what the oil galleries can take in terms of flow at the different pressure.
I am considering drilling in a second oil hole to each bearing on the crank on the opposite block to the one that has it now. The only problem is that the right side of the crankcase top oil gallery goes from the front of the block to the back. Which means we can drill down with new oil galleries but on the left this the galley stops after the #4 bearing, which means I am short of being able to do what I want on the back 3 bearings. THis leaves only a couple of choices create a exterinal oil gallery or forget it. Need to give it more thought. Will post a image of the oil paths from the manual when we have a chance. Tony
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1995 - SVX 700,000 K Mine, DMS Struts to lift car 2in. Tyres Wrangler Silent Armor 235/70R16, PBR Radiator. 6 speed with DCCD and R180 rer diff, Heavy duty top strut mounts front and rear. Speedo correction box fitted. New stero (gave up on the old one). Back seat removed and 2 spare tyres fitted for desert driving. ECUTune SC sitting in the box for the next SVX. 1992 - SVX 255 K Wife (Want to stay Married so not allowed to fit SC) 1992 - SVX Pearl with black roof race car roll cauge etc ready to race. Ex Tasman Targa car. 1995 - SVX Green low k mint condiation. 1995 - SVX Rally car, ex Matts car. Now to be used on track. 1992 - SVX red & Black being converted to Mid Engine. 1995 - SVX Red 143,000 bit rough. Owned 5 others Subaru back to a 1974 1400 GSR. |
#178
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Re: Building a 10,000 rpm NA engine.
Matt's friend Mark has just pointed me in the right direction with a quick lesson on fliud dynamics.
To get more oil into the bearing with out altering the current oil galleries if we assume current data (Which I think Barry proved was not correct) is, 56lpm at 5,000rpm and 45psi Our maxium target flow is 145lpm to get that level I would have to increase the pump pressure to 305 psi. So if anyone had any further doubt that we need to mod the oil galleries this should clear it up, can you imagine the amount of HP required to drive the pump at that pressure. Have a great day. Tony
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1995 - SVX 700,000 K Mine, DMS Struts to lift car 2in. Tyres Wrangler Silent Armor 235/70R16, PBR Radiator. 6 speed with DCCD and R180 rer diff, Heavy duty top strut mounts front and rear. Speedo correction box fitted. New stero (gave up on the old one). Back seat removed and 2 spare tyres fitted for desert driving. ECUTune SC sitting in the box for the next SVX. 1992 - SVX 255 K Wife (Want to stay Married so not allowed to fit SC) 1992 - SVX Pearl with black roof race car roll cauge etc ready to race. Ex Tasman Targa car. 1995 - SVX Green low k mint condiation. 1995 - SVX Rally car, ex Matts car. Now to be used on track. 1992 - SVX red & Black being converted to Mid Engine. 1995 - SVX Red 143,000 bit rough. Owned 5 others Subaru back to a 1974 1400 GSR. |
#179
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Re: Building a 10,000 rpm NA engine.
Big factor is lost power to run pump, so here is the calc.
flow (in gpm) times pressure (in psi) all divided by 1714, gives Hp to run pump. so existing pump at 5,000 rpm using Subaru details, 14.8gpm times 43 psi divided by 1714 using .37hp to drive it. If the existing pump is used to run at 10k pumping;- 29.6gpm the pressure will go from 43 to 172psi feed this data in to the orignal equation, 29.6gpm times 172psi divided by 1714 gives 2.9hp needed. So in simple terms the standard EG33 pump would need to stand 7.8 times the drive power. There is no way the current design pump can stand that load. Run the new pump standard oil galleries, engine at 10k pump doing 7.5k 41.25 gpm at 305psi divide by 1714 means we need 7.3 hp to drive it If we get the pressure back by drilling the ports on the block to 50psi, 41.25 gpm at 50psi divided by 1714 means we need 1.2 hp to drive the pump. Okay so we can live with the last number 1.2hp is okay just need to figure out how to redrill the block. Tony
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1995 - SVX 700,000 K Mine, DMS Struts to lift car 2in. Tyres Wrangler Silent Armor 235/70R16, PBR Radiator. 6 speed with DCCD and R180 rer diff, Heavy duty top strut mounts front and rear. Speedo correction box fitted. New stero (gave up on the old one). Back seat removed and 2 spare tyres fitted for desert driving. ECUTune SC sitting in the box for the next SVX. 1992 - SVX 255 K Wife (Want to stay Married so not allowed to fit SC) 1992 - SVX Pearl with black roof race car roll cauge etc ready to race. Ex Tasman Targa car. 1995 - SVX Green low k mint condiation. 1995 - SVX Rally car, ex Matts car. Now to be used on track. 1992 - SVX red & Black being converted to Mid Engine. 1995 - SVX Red 143,000 bit rough. Owned 5 others Subaru back to a 1974 1400 GSR. |
#180
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Re: Building a 10,000 rpm NA engine.
Tony,
Yeah, 305 psi isn't going to cut it Looking forward to what you come up with regarding the drilling. -Bill Quote:
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Retired NASA Rocket Scientist Most famous NASA "Child" - OSIRIS-REx delivered samples from asteroid BENNU to Earth in Sept. 2023 Center Network Member #989 '92 Fully caged, 5 speed, waiting for its fully built EG33 '92 "Test Mule", 4:44 Auto, JDM 4:44 Rear Diff with Mech LSD, Tuned headers, Full one-off suspension '92(?) Laguna, 6 spd and other stuff (still at OT's place) My Locker |
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