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#16
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Re: 4.44 Swap Finished; Complete with horrible problematic sound
Wow! Did it sound anything like the video?
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www.svxfiles.com The first SuperCharged SVX, the first 4.44 gears, the first equal length headers, the first phenolic spacers, the first Class Glass fiberglass hood, the first with 4, 4.44s in his driveway Fiberglass Hood thread My locker 4.44 Swap link |
#17
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Re: 4.44 Swap Finished; Complete with horrible problematic sound
I had heard about using a screwdriver as a stethoscope before, but had never tried it. It worked very well for me (I used a footlong philips), and I could isolate the noise fairly well. It is quiet on the motor case, and quiet on the starter. But very loud on the bellhousing, and equally loud on the bottom of the front diff.
I am under the impression it is NOT coming from any of the diff or transmission internals, since I have been told only the TQ, flexplate, and front pump should be rotating while in Park, and the noise definitely is present at that time. Quote:
- not sure what starters look like when worn out, but I think the teeth look ok (and of course this noise is new and the starter condition has not changed) - the gear seems to be in the correct retracted position, and it moves freely - the bell housing is completely flush all the way around (I will triple check tomorrow) Quote:
None of the bolts are loose. I cannot see any crack along the outside portion that is viewable thru the access hole http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X58wy...ature=youtu.be Last edited by Dynamic Entry; 11-07-2013 at 08:02 PM. |
#18
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Re: 4.44 Swap Finished; Complete with horrible problematic sound
Here is a photo of the inside of my starter. The teeth were fine but the inside was bad two of the brushes were not making a complete contact on the commutator.
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Father of 5 sons and 1 daughter Subaru SVX for fun Hyundai Veracruz for the wife. Susuki SX4 for my older son Ford Ranger for work Mercedes Benz Sprinter for vacation trips, EZ GO Golf cart for driving kids around gated community. Last edited by dannmarr; 11-06-2013 at 08:43 PM. |
#19
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Re: 4.44 Swap Finished; Complete with horrible problematic sound
Quote:
At any rate, I think I can rule out the flexplate... That scratch/gouge presumably goes all the way around the TQ. I am surprised that I never felt any resistance or heard any scraping when rotating it by hand. The TQ spun freely before I bolted it to flexplate, and now it moves normally when turning the crank pulley. No noise, no binding, no scraping. I'm taking bets on what exactly is contacting the torque converter and scraping it. |
#20
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Re: 4.44 Swap Finished; Complete with horrible problematic sound
wow, looks pretty deep
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1992 LSL ebony pearl 170k - Thank you Ron Mummert Reading Box of Wine Car ----------------------------------- 1992 SVX LSL 5-Speed Sold at 180K 2019 1995 SVX Lsi Polo Sold at 118K 2007 |
#21
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Re: 4.44 Swap Finished; Complete with horrible problematic sound
My flexplate crack did not sound like that! That sounds like something else.
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Father of 5 sons and 1 daughter Subaru SVX for fun Hyundai Veracruz for the wife. Susuki SX4 for my older son Ford Ranger for work Mercedes Benz Sprinter for vacation trips, EZ GO Golf cart for driving kids around gated community. |
#22
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Re: 4.44 Swap Finished; Complete with horrible problematic sound
I am completely stumped.
I have not separated the trans from the engine yet. I am really dreading that (winter is here with inches of snow and the car is outside). Part of me is afraid that even if I do drop the tranny again, I won't even find anything. One might ask, with noise and damage like THAT, how could you NOT find anything? Well, I offer a review. Video: Flexplate&TQ spinning with motor being turned at crank. This is WITH the starter installed. No noise or resistance coming from TQ, only normal compression resistance and the noise of the ratchet wrench. So, I removed the TQ to Flexplate bolts. Video: The TQ spins freely (as it also did during the install before I ever mated to the flexplate) The scrape is clearly visible all the way around, although it does seem to waver or squiggle (for lack of better word). ***Disclaimer, the noise you hear in this video is not being made by any scraping of the TQ, it is spinning freely. An important note about seating the TQ fully. I know that I got the TQ seated all the way before I began installation. So. I think I had the TQ fully seated. Here is a picture of the Outback torque converter sitting in the scrapped SVX bellhousing. You can see that there is ample room all around the TQ casing, and the narrowest margins seem to be at corners of the bottom opening. But that said, there is nothing in there that is at all close to touching. Also, remember that the scrape is present on the casing inbetween the teeth and the flexplate bolt flanges. Something has to be contacting the casing and NOT contacting these. So, again, it seems like the starter is the only thing capable of protruding into the bellhousing and making contact. (Unless I dropped/lost some random shrapnel inside and it is caught in a bizarre way that allows it to contact the TQ with engine running only). But I have removed the starter twice, and can find zero evidence of contact or damage. I wish there was some way to run the car with the starter uninstalled. Is push starting an automatic transmission a myth? I am at a loss. |
#23
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Re: 4.44 Swap Finished; Complete with horrible problematic sound
Use a crayon or paint pen to fill in the gouge. Put everything back together, run the engine, then pull the starter to see if your markers are scratched away. If so, there is something in there that shouldn't be.
You may not have to drop the trans? If you slide it back on the bottom studs, you may have room to check what's going on. Have a clean floor or a magnet under the trans when you take it apart, to help ID if any thing falls out.
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Dave - 03 Baja - 92 SVX - 86 Brat - 08 OB 3.0 |
#24
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Re: 4.44 Swap Finished; Complete with horrible problematic sound
Have you checked the steering rack for rub marks? It's pretty close for any foreign stuff to be left there and at the correct location ...
See photo Tapani |
#25
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Re: 4.44 Swap Finished; Complete with horrible problematic sound
I was able to slide the transmission back almost an inch without dropping the exhaust or touching the axles.
I went as far as buying an LED inspection camera to try and see all around the torque converter. I can't see anything foreign in the bellhousing, and I could not see any marks that indicate contact. I am going to paint/mark the TQ and put everything together again. I am also going to paint/mark the starter surfaces. I really couldn't see any sign of damage on the starter, but I can't think of anything else that could be causing this. I did check the steering rack, because it does line up with the location of the problem. But there is clearance between all components, and nothing foreign. At this point I am sure I have made some ridiculous mistake, but I really cannot understand it. Last edited by Dynamic Entry; 11-11-2013 at 07:08 PM. |
#26
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Re: 4.44 Swap Finished; Complete with horrible problematic sound
How deep is the gouge? In the photo you posted it looks like the TC shell is bent... I wonder how big the internal radial clearances are? I have never actually seen one machined open in a lathe - only photos...
Make sure the locating dowels have not been pushed out when installing the tranny.... happened to me one. This may cause misalignment. You said the sound changes from reverse to D.... I trust yo checked the tranny rear mount - the loading of does change with forward / reverse change even when standing still. Nothing but the pump should rotate within the tranny itself if the vehicle is not moving in D or R. Interesting, T |
#27
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Re: 4.44 Swap Finished; Complete with horrible problematic sound
Quote:
I have not tried to measure the depth of the gouge, but it appears to be about 1 millimeter (1/32 of an inch maybe). Quote:
Quote:
Are you suggesting that the rear mount could be responsible for WHY my TC is being damaged? (Which would still leave the question of WHAT is contacting my TC) Interesting that you mention it, because I used a Legacy rear trans mount. The SVX rear trans mount was broken in half when I uninstalled it. The rubber had sheared completely apart, so the trans mount came out in two pieces, top half and bottom half. The Legacy mount was the exact size and shape of the SVX mount. The only difference was that the SVX mount had only 2 studs and the Legacy mount had 3. So I cut the extra one off, and used it. I wasn't sure if the rubber would be a different density, but figured if the SVX had been running with a sheared mount, this could only be an improvement. If the rear mount could somehow be responsible (I don't really see how the mount could affect the TC position), that would be good to know, but it still wouldn't solve my mystery of what exactly is contacting the TC. Indeed. Last edited by Dynamic Entry; 11-12-2013 at 12:37 AM. |
#28
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Re: 4.44 Swap Finished; Complete with horrible problematic sound
The rear mount has nothing to do with your noise.
Can you measure how far back the teeth on the TQ are from the opening at the back of the engine? I think that you do not have the TQ installed far enough. As you install the TQ it takes THREE steps, that is to say the TQ drops into place three times as you load it into the transmission bell housing. If it not drop all the way back, then it will be under pressure, enough for the TQ to bind/leal/scrape.
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www.svxfiles.com The first SuperCharged SVX, the first 4.44 gears, the first equal length headers, the first phenolic spacers, the first Class Glass fiberglass hood, the first with 4, 4.44s in his driveway Fiberglass Hood thread My locker 4.44 Swap link |
#29
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Re: 4.44 Swap Finished; Complete with horrible problematic sound
yeah, what OT said!
Bill
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Retired NASA Rocket Scientist Most famous NASA "Child" - OSIRIS-REx delivered samples from asteroid BENNU to Earth in Sept. 2023 Center Network Member #989 '92 Fully caged, 5 speed, waiting for its fully built EG33 '92 "Test Mule", 4:44 Auto, JDM 4:44 Rear Diff with Mech LSD, Tuned headers, Full one-off suspension '92(?) Laguna, 6 spd and other stuff (still at OT's place) My Locker |
#30
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Re: 4.44 Swap Finished; Complete with horrible problematic sound
Quote:
But, I am willing to entertain the idea that I have it wrong. I will try to get some meaningful pictures and measurements. But please indulge me: Quote:
Cheers Last edited by Dynamic Entry; 11-12-2013 at 05:36 PM. |
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