Building a 10,000 rpm NA engine.

[dynomatt]

I understand manufacturers install oil squirters in forced induction engines (particularly turbo) to cool the pistons.

I'm unsure if anybody uses them for non-turbo engines.

MAtt

[Dessertrunner]

We are getting closer to dry sump final the oil pockets from the front two pumps are for the left and right head. While it looks like the pump is down a bit in realitity it is not. Distance from top of pump the base of engine (were sump bolts) is 42mm. Back port on the pump is the suction for the pressure pump. The back of the pump I have also is fittered with a pressure releife valve so I don't need to use the one on the standard pump.
I will try to cad the front of the engine roughly so I can work throught the drive system and crank oil seal.
Tony

[dynomatt]

Tony,

Do you need to measure the clearance of the cross member or does the pump dimensions fit into where the existing sump fits?

Matt

[Dessertrunner]

Good point Matt,
I need to doudle check it but the pump is forward of the main beam. just as well you mentioned it other wise I might have forgot to check.
Tony

[Subaru Alliance]

Originally Posted by dynomatt

I understand manufacturers install oil squirters in forced induction engines (particularly turbo) to cool the pistons.

I'm unsure if anybody uses them for non-turbo engines.

MAtt

I had a 2003 ford focus svt once upon a time while stationed in germany. it was a fun car to drive. Anyways I bought it with a jackson racing supercharger on it and the car had premium fuel stickers all over it, on the gas cap, on the fuel gauge under the hood etc. etc. I assumed it was FACTORY supercharged. well it wasn't and a super charger combined with the autobahn equals 2 dime sized holes melted into 2 out of 4 pistons. Anyways I replaced the pistons in the car with some JE low compression pistons and threw a rod about 3 days later. (that rod had signs of heat fatigue, it was an expensive learning experience)

To make a long story short, the car was not forced induction from the factory, it did require premium fuel only, and it did have the oil squirters directed at the underside of the pistons.

[Dessertrunner]

Interesting story but I bet you had fun even if it cost you money.

Here is the final dry sump design, checked clearance at the back and its all good Matt.

Now I need to sort the drive and crank out.
Tony

[bazza]

Originally Posted by Subaru Alliance

I had a 2003 ford focus svt once upon a time while stationed in germany. it was a fun car to drive. Anyways I bought it with a jackson racing supercharger on it and the car had premium fuel stickers all over it, on the gas cap, on the fuel gauge under the hood etc. etc. I assumed it was FACTORY supercharged. well it wasn't and a super charger combined with the autobahn equals 2 dime sized holes melted into 2 out of 4 pistons. Anyways I replaced the pistons in the car with some JE low compression pistons and threw a rod about 3 days later. (that rod had signs of heat fatigue, it was an expensive learning experience)

To make a long story short, the car was not forced induction from the factory, it did require premium fuel only, and it did have the oil squirters directed at the underside of the pistons.

Subaru's had them in the RS EJ20 (turbo) back in late 80s, early 90s. They're well over-engineered and not nessecary and thus removed along with closed decking never to return.

Interesting about Ford engines being rather weak. Stock Subaru NA pistons and rods can take a huge amount of punishment and ofter the turbo models share the same rods as the NA's. The EG33 actually has the same rod part number as many of the early STI models - guess that's why we all love Subarus

Nice work Tony. One thing - you need more of a recess at the front - check out the stock block and you'll see what I mean, oil cross over pipe is in the way of the drainage.

[Dessertrunner]

Bazza I have bolted a flat plate up no problems so I not sure were you mean but I will have a look tonight.
Tony

[Dessertrunner]

Had some belt calcs run today by the belt supplier if I use a 16mm wide T10 belt 20T driving a 40T assuming the 20T can run up to 10,000rpm (belt is rated to run up to 15,000) it is capable of running at 7kw. I am guess that will be enough to power the pump. If I can I will try to run some load tests to see how it goes.
The 20 tooth will just fit behind the timing belt pulley but still leave enough room for the seal on the crank providing the crank is machined back.
Have a great day.
Tony

[Crazy_pilot]

Hey guys,

Just curious if you'd come across the Dailey Engineering dry sump setup. I haven't read the full thread, so I appologize if it's been mentioned before.

http://www.daileyengineering.com/sub...6_cylinder.htm

[Dessertrunner]

Yes I have spoken to Bill Dailey, its a really good unit, I just decided I want to make mine.
Tony

[Dessertrunner]

Here is the pdf with the drive pullies in position you can see the seal behind the pump drive pulley. The crankshaft length in the drawing reflects the amount stick out side the block. Will see how I go don't like tv much so may try to add timing pullies, water pump pullie and cam gears to help with vistiation.
Tony

[Dessertrunner]

Some number are in that we now know about the pump.

- The Dailey pump I am using will supply 5.5 US gallons per 1,000 rpm at pressure.
- It can run up to 10k for short period but can sit at 7k continous.
- If my Maxium revs is 10k I need to gear the pump down so 20t driving a 30t will mean at 10k the pump will be doing 7.5k
- At above numbers this pump will supply 170 l per min.
- If the engine was run continous at around 8k then I will get 135l per min.
- Give the increased oil flow I can now redrill the crank case to increase flow.


This is a good result I can reduce the revs on the pump if I need to because I may have to much oil or I may use it to put oil sprayers on the under side of the pistons.

Please note that this pump is a NASCAR one so it performs at far higher levels then any other types.

Have a great day.
Tony

[SVXRide]

Great stuff, Tony!

Did you ever find the time to set up one of your CNC machines so it could crank out modified water pump outlets (still allowing us to use the stock thermostat)?

Thanks.

Bill

Originally Posted by Dessertrunner

Some number are in that we now know about the pump.

- The Dailey pump I am using will supply 5.5 US gallons per 1,000 rpm at pressure.
- It can run up to 10k for short period but can sit at 7k continous.
- If my Maxium revs is 10k I need to gear the pump down so 20t driving a 30t will mean at 10k the pump will be doing 7.5k
- At above numbers this pump will supply 170 l per min.
- If the engine was run continous at around 8k then I will get 135l per min.
- Give the increased oil flow I can now redrill the crank case to increase flow.


This is a good result I can reduce the revs on the pump if I need to because I may have to much oil or I may use it to put oil sprayers on the under side of the pistons.

Please note that this pump is a NASCAR one so it performs at far higher levels then any other types.

Have a great day.
Tony

[Dessertrunner]

Hi Tom, no I have not set up the CNC for the cover but it is on my list. I intend to use the forth axis. The reason is that I am going to have to build a new larger cover for the pump to run at 10k maybe 60mm inlet.
By the way all, I let my head go and brought a Japanese CNC lathe as well secondhand but its a commerical production unit 12 years old. It cost the orignal buyer $150K.

Started work on doing the CNC mill file codes to cut the parts have run them on simulation and they are looking good. Also spat the dummy and put the engine I am using as a jig on to a engine stand so I can turn it over to sort the sump plate out better. Also need to double check Matt and Bazza's points.
Tony