help,turn key to start,no sound

[Cam]

+1 for attempting to start it in neutral, if for no other reason than simple diagnostics.

Why did they add a relay to the US model? Is there some requirement here in the US that would obligate an import to be equipped with one?

EDIT: In my personal experiences (have replaced many faulty starters, and a couple of good ones) there should be a clicking sound, either single or repeated when you attempt to crank the engine over. If there is no clicking, then the starter is simply not being engaged. Most likely caused by an electrical issue. Since you hear no clicking, I am going to advise your starter is fine.

[SoCal LS-L]

Originally Posted by kwren

The odds are always against the Neutral Safety Switch. In a case of just trying to start the car over and over again till it finally starts, the Neutral Safety Switch would almost be a dead issue.

I wouldn't put money on the notion that there isn't a "Bosch relay" buried somewhere in the vicinity of the car that does the same thing as the 5 terminal relay does on ours. With a wiring diagram, it would be a snap to find it.

Maybe someone with one from those other country's would be nice enough to attach one??
Thanks...
Keith

Well Keith, since it seems there is no relay for his system, and trying to start in N is just so easy, I dont think discouraging him to at least try is a good idea. It would also seem the general consensus agrees to at least give it a shot.

[kwren]

Originally Posted by SoCal LS-L

Well Keith, since it seems there is no relay for his system, and trying to start in N is just so easy, I dont think discouraging him to at least try is a good idea. It would also seem the general consensus agrees to at least give it a shot.

I certainly agree with that. If it were my personal problem I would check everything in the system, including, of course, the starter itself.

Of course, the trying to start in "N" is not exactly testing the switch.

Keith

[SoCal LS-L]

Originally Posted by kwren

I certainly agree with that. If it were my personal problem I would check everything in the system, including, of course, the starter itself.

Of course, the trying to start in "N" is not exactly testing the switch.

Keith

Why wouldnt it be? The possibility of the switch contacts going bad in P and N at the exact same time is probably 6,000,000,000,000 to 1

Very good reason to START with the easiest thing to test. If it doesnt work, then we know its something else, since those tests aren't as easy.

Remember I got 5 forum pesos on this, and I always pay up.

[Cam]

A friend of mine owns a Ford Expedition and sometimes he has to go back and forth between park and neutral several times before the car will start. I was going to try and adjust his neutral safety switch. Should I be chasing a different problem or is it still logical that the NSS is not adjusted properly although it sometimes does not start in neutral?

[kwren]

Originally Posted by Cam

A friend of mine owns a Ford Expedition and sometimes he has to go back and forth between park and neutral several times before the car will start. I was going to try and adjust his neutral safety switch. Should I be chasing a different problem or is it still logical that the NSS is not adjusted properly although it sometimes does not start in neutral?

I don't think there is an adjustment on the switch but can't be sure. Not an easy thing to get to and test, at least not for me.

The low current flow through that switch and the construction of it makes me think there is little chance that it is a problem. I don't remember that ever being the problem here...

If you have a wiring diagram you can test the circuit. If you need one, you possible can download one here on this site. Just say what you need.

Good luck
Keith

[kwren]

Originally Posted by SoCal LS-L

Why wouldnt it be? The possibility of the switch contacts going bad in P and N at the exact same time is probably 6,000,000,000,000 to 1

Very good reason to START with the easiest thing to test. If it doesnt work, then we know its something else, since those tests aren't as easy.

Remember I got 5 forum pesos on this, and I always pay up.

Maybe I am missing something here, but it sounds like it is a matter of just moving the shifter from "P" to "N" while attempting to start the car. If this is the case, there is not a 1 to 6,000,000,000,000 chance that Cam hasn't tried this.

I have already decided either the whole world is crazy or just me... Back to bed!

Maybe it will get clearer tomorrow

Keith

[tigersvx]

Originally Posted by SoCal LS-L

So you DID try starting in Neutral(N) with no luck?

after i came down from the snow mountain,
on the 18-19aug,idrove 400km back to auckland,stop in hamilton for one night,
both 2 days,its started fine,so I have not use the start-in-neutral yet.
still looking 4 the real problem?
I had a feeling that it get worse when up on the snow of -1degree,
becos that one time that i could not start at the snow parking,it took
me 6-8 times to start,(its the worst,other times it took 2-3 times to start)n before it could start again,I think i try to shaken
the battery connection,and the gear shift too......
so ,may be starting in neutral will work afterall.
I will try the next time it happened,but dont know when,
its the uncertainty that make me nerveous.

[tigersvx]

Originally Posted by SoCal LS-L

Im still betting 5 forum Pesos it's his Neutral Safety Switch, he says he hears no clicking or anything when he turns the key. He hasn't verified he tried starting it in Neutral yet..... I believe this test is the most simple to do and easily eliminate the NSS as a cause, as you only have to move the gear selector a couple clicks down.... not exactly hard to check.

Just my 2¢

yes,I will try on this first,definitely,
as i said the last 2 days it starts well,so hav not got a chance yet.
I will report back.

I am certain when i turn further to start,not a click,it just silent.

[tigersvx]

Originally Posted by Cam

+1 for attempting to start it in neutral, if for no other reason than simple diagnostics.

Why did they add a relay to the US model? Is there some requirement here in the US that would obligate an import to be equipped with one?

EDIT: In my personal experiences (have replaced many faulty starters, and a couple of good ones) there should be a clicking sound, either single or repeated when you attempt to crank the engine over. If there is no clicking, then the starter is simply not being engaged. Most likely caused by an electrical issue. Since you hear no clicking, I am going to advise your starter is fine.

THanks you all for advices.Thanks all svx great fans.
I hope too that my starter is ok.(cos its very dear.)
and since I hear no sound at all,not a click,
so if it should be an electrical issue,and if i can start my car by shifting to N
then,I might as well not fix it,and shift to N everytime it happens,
as i only use my car about 1500km each year.
If i dont fix that,is there any problem in longer term?

[SoCal LS-L]

Originally Posted by kwren

Maybe I am missing something here, but it sounds like it is a matter of just moving the shifter from "P" to "N" while attempting to start the car. If this is the case, there is not a 1 to 6,000,000,000,000 chance that Cam hasn't tried this.

I have already decided either the whole world is crazy or just me... Back to bed!

Maybe it will get clearer tomorrow

Keith

Originally Posted by tigersvx

after i came down from the snow mountain,
on the 18-19aug,idrove 400km back to auckland,stop in hamilton for one night,
both 2 days,its started fine,so I have not use the start-in-neutral yet.
still looking 4 the real problem?
I had a feeling that it get worse when up on the snow of -1degree,
becos that one time that i could not start at the snow parking,it took
me 6-8 times to start,(its the worst,other times it took 2-3 times to start)n before it could start again,I think i try to shaken
the battery connection,and the gear shift too......
so ,may be starting in neutral will work afterall.
I will try the next time it happened,but dont know when,
its the uncertainty that make me nerveous.

Originally Posted by tigersvx

yes,I will try on this first,definitely,
as i said the last 2 days it starts well,so hav not got a chance yet.
I will report back.

I am certain when i turn further to start,not a click,it just silent.

There ya have it! You even answered your own question!

[lhopp77]

Originally Posted by kwren

Not being confrontational here, but I don't think so Lee...
the bypass mod is a 4 terminal Bosch relay and the factory one, the 5 terminal one could even be Bosch, but not necessarily a Bosch, that is used in conjunction with the SVX factory oriented security system circuit is a 5 terminal relay, using a normally closed position of contacts during the start process.

This 5 terminal relay is not energized during the start process.

The factory 5 terminal is also used in conjunction with the security system to prevent starting if alarm security is violated.

Keith

I didn't consider it confrontational, just a bit misleading and wrong. CLEARLY, what I am about to say does NOT apply to this current problem but does apply to every 92 USDM model that I have looked at.

The FACTORY relay USES ONLY 4 Pins----TRUE, but it IS a 5 PIN receptacle PLUG for the relay with only 4 wires going to it and a blank area for the 5th pin to fit. ALSO, the 5 pin BOSCH relays used in both the factory and NORMALLY the bypass have TWO (2) 87 Pins (87 and 87a) which are obviously the same so only one is used. It is actually just a 4 pin relay configured with 5 pins for optional mounting plug situations. Again,ONLY one of the 87 pins is used.

I can provide a wiring harness pic of the 4 wire, 5 receptacle plug if you are still in doubt.

Not being confrontational--just accurate.

Lee

[kwren]

Originally Posted by lhopp77

I didn't consider it confrontational, just a bit misleading and wrong. CLEARLY, what I am about to say does NOT apply to this current problem but does apply to every 92 USDM model that I have looked at.

The FACTORY relay USES ONLY 4 Pins----TRUE, but it IS a 5 PIN receptacle PLUG for the relay with only 4 wires going to it and a blank area for the 5th pin to fit. ALSO, the 5 pin BOSCH relays used in both the factory and NORMALLY the bypass have TWO (2) 87 Pins (87 and 87a) which are obviously the same so only one is used. It is actually just a 4 pin relay configured with 5 pins for optional mounting plug situations. Again,ONLY one of the 87 pins is used.

I can provide a wiring harness pic of the 4 wire, 5 receptacle plug if you are still in doubt.

Not being confrontational--just accurate.

Lee

Thanks, Lee!
The reason for only 4 wires would be that that particular 5 terminal relays function requires the use of only 4 terminals and is not even relevant. The extra terminal is the way of running the start circuit through the normally closed relay points to complete the desired starting circuit path, of course that has to be one of the only 4 terminals that are used. Naturally, as you know, the Bosch 4 terminal relay will not work in that situation.

Keith

[Alex-svx]

Have you find the Problem.

I have the same on mine and its the Negative term on my batteriwiring is verry old so i have to replace this. But its help to spray electronick cleaner on the wire.
This problem start afer it have been in a ''open'' garage in the winter.

So i will also chek the negative wiring term on the batteri.