Right bank won't fire - Page 2

SVXDan · #16 02-01-2009, 11:38 AM

That wasn't it, back into the shop it goes.

kwren · #17 02-01-2009, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SVXDan

That wasn't it, back into the shop it goes.

Mine did the exact same thing. Start great and run great a little ways and then disaster! The Subaru dealer had it and checked it out and worked on it continually for 6 weeks + a day.

They never worked it out. They never even got close. I brought it back home and worked it out myself... (I pray a lot)

When I got it home I found the cam shaft and sprocket had rusted out where it bolted on to the shaft and even though the timing belt marks were fine, the right bank was out of time because the sprocket slipped on the cam shaft.

For some reason, unknown to me, the car started and ran great for a little ways and then the right bank died. That is what was so confusing. Logic, which obviously doesn't apply, said that it couldn't be out of time and start great and run great... but it did... every time.

I think I asked you before, "Will your car still start"? Will it run a bit before the disaster hits like it did the two times you told us all about?

I don't know where you, or they, think the power loss to the right side is, but any connection that is open is a piece of cake to test and find.

There is little chance your shop will work this out. Like my old pappy used to say, "A word to the wise is sufficient."

Keith

SoCal LS-L · #18 02-01-2009, 03:10 PM

According to the wiring diagram that Tom provided, after much study, I would suspect that since the 12v power lead goes into the connector plug downstream from the ignitor, id check that plug itself first. Its a large round one as far as I can tell from your pics Tom. It looks like the lead is two wires to feed the two coil banks independently so this is where I would start. Looking under my hood at the connectors, it looks extremely hard to trace back without knowing the actual color/stripe of those two lead wires (mine are all wrapped). I couldnt tell from the pics..... can you give the color combo of the wires that provide the 12v to the coils Tom? From his post he stated he had 0v at the spark plugs, which of course is true if engine isnt running or that bank isnt firing. I believe Toms 100% correct to trace the 12v lead wire for the right bank, you just need the color/stripe combination to find it in that mess.

log1call · #19 02-01-2009, 04:24 PM

Wires hardly ever break mid length on modern cars. They are all routed and held too well. The commonest place for a break is where it bends coming out of a plug, so, if there is no obvious damage to the wiring loom I'd get a pin and poke it into the wires through their insulation and check for power just a little way out from that plug being mentioned.

SVXDan · #20 02-01-2009, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwren

I think I asked you before, "Will your car still start"? Will it run a bit before the disaster hits like it did the two times you told us all about?

I don't know where you, or they, think the power loss to the right side is, but any connection that is open is a piece of cake to test and find.

The car does start, it'll run rough, on the 3 cyliners. I can get it around the driveway. The odd thing is the longer it runs, the better it runs. There's something going on where over time as the engine warms up it actually gets more power and doesn't seem to mis-fire as much. A severely out of sync timing could cause that I'd think. I'll give them a call on Monday to let them know to check the timing belt and timing in general, good thought, I didn't check it.

svxfiles · #21 02-01-2009, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by log1call

Wires hardly ever break mid length on modern cars. They are all routed and held too well. The commonest place for a break is where it bends coming out of a plug, so, if there is no obvious damage to the wiring loom I'd get a pin and poke it into the wires through their insulation and check for power just a little way out from that plug being mentioned.

But critters still eat the wires.

kwren · #22 02-01-2009, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by svxfiles

But critters still eat the wires.

It's a toss up! Wires fry critters!
A lifetime of repairing and servicing appliances has shown me many of a fried critter in appliances! 220 volts works the best!

Much harder to happen on a car I would think.

Keith

kwren · #23 02-01-2009, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SVXDan

The car does start, it'll run rough, on the 3 cyliners. I can get it around the driveway. The odd thing is the longer it runs, the better it runs. There's something going on where over time as the engine warms up it actually gets more power and doesn't seem to mis-fire as much. A severely out of sync timing could cause that I'd think. I'll give them a call on Monday to let them know to check the timing belt and timing in general, good thought, I didn't check it.

I would ask them to take the sprocket off and make sure of that

Hope the thing gets worked out soon for you!!!

Keith

kwren · #24 02-01-2009, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SVXDan

The car does start, it'll run rough, on the 3 cyliners. I can get it around the driveway. The odd thing is the longer it runs, the better it runs. There's something going on where over time as the engine warms up it actually gets more power and doesn't seem to mis-fire as much. A severely out of sync timing could cause that I'd think.

And a completely broken wire certainly will "never" cause that.

Oops, I did it. Should "never say never"

svxfiles · #25 02-01-2009, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwren

It's a toss up! Wires fry critters!
A lifetime of repairing and servicing appliances has shown me many of a fried critter in appliances! 220 volts works the best!

Much harder to happen on a car I would think.

Keith

I had an SVX with a something, something problem...
Maybe it was a CEL...
Along the passenger side wiring harness, routed through a soft plastic tube,
I found one wire, cut in half by what I can only assume to be an animal bite!

It's cold outside, the engine at 200°f and falling to ambient,...it seems like an inviting place to curl up.
Wires, or plastic apparently is tasty to small critters.
The engine is off so there is no current...

I have seen the cam timing off on a couple of SVXi due to cam wear, but the coils would still spark.
Tom

log1call · #26 02-01-2009, 07:18 PM

Yes well there seems to be contradicting symptoms here.
Either it has no power, it has power, or it has intermittent power. I doubt that any of those will cause a motor to start and then slowly come right.

I don't suppose it could have ahead gasket going out, causing water on the plugs at start up?

The other thing that can give strange symptoms is leaking capacitors in the ecu. The electrolyte runs over other circuits and shorts them out intermittently and some times they can vary as the fluid dries and gets wet again with humidity. For the cost in time and effort I would pull the ecu and inspect it inside for leaking capacitors, burnt resistors, cracked circuit boards.

oab_au · #27 02-01-2009, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by log1call

Yes well there seems to be contradicting symptoms here.
Either it has no power, it has power, or it has intermittent power. I doubt that any of those will cause a motor to start and then slowly come right.

I don't suppose it could have ahead gasket going out, causing water on the plugs at start up?

The other thing that can give strange symptoms is leaking capacitors in the ecu. The electrolyte runs over other circuits and shorts them out intermittently and some times they can vary as the fluid dries and gets wet again with humidity. For the cost in time and effort I would pull the ecu and inspect it inside for leaking capacitors, burnt resistors, cracked circuit boards.

Yes got to agree, that does change the situation.

It sounds like the ECU is having trouble picking up the cam position sensor voltage. Needs a higher rpm to develop the voltage.

Till then it is on three cylinders.

Harvey.

SVXDan · #28 02-03-2009, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by log1call

The other thing that can give strange symptoms is leaking capacitors in the ecu. The electrolyte runs over other circuits and shorts them out intermittently and some times they can vary as the fluid dries and gets wet again with humidity. For the cost in time and effort I would pull the ecu and inspect it inside for leaking capacitors, burnt resistors, cracked circuit boards.

I think you're right on, this feels like leaking caps to me. The shop has no clue, they're saying the cylinders aren't firing because of a cracked vacuum hose. Yeah right, probably not good, but not a car killer. I'm going to bring it back home and pull the ECU, I bet I'm going to find blown caps all over.

SVXDan · #29 02-07-2009, 01:05 PM

So I got it back from the shop, they replaced just about all the vacuum lines since they were so brittle, they also pluged up some gasket vacuum leaks. The car actually runs worse than when I gave it to them.

I pulled the ECU, everything looks fine, no blown caps, no burned wires, nothing out of the ordinary.

Anyone know what is downstream from the ECU and up from the ignition relay? I checked as many ignition components as I could, but there may be another in between.

SVXDan · #30 02-07-2009, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by log1call

Yes well there seems to be contradicting symptoms here.
Either it has no power, it has power, or it has intermittent power. I doubt that any of those will cause a motor to start and then slowly come right.

The motor never "runs right", it just runs better. When I start it up, its pouring blue smoke out the back so rich I could probably light it on fire. After a 10 miles or so, I have some low end power again and the exhaust smells better. It never actually runs as its suppose to, just enough to move it around town very slowly.