Illegals

[sowise]

Thought I would move the discussion away from the conversation about subicrossers property and violation of his rights as a property owner and tax payer.

I found this an interesting read. While I was in Arizona I had heard something about one of the smaller local towns people who were afraid to go on vacation or leave their houses for an extended period of time because of the illegals would clean them out and destroy their property. Not the kind of illegals that come to work and find a better life. Anyway here is the piece I mentioned. (p.s. benebob I don't see McCain listed anywhere here...?)

Sylvia Allen is an Arizona Senator. This article appears on her web page and in the Tucson Citizen.com

Absolutely great analysis by an Arizona state senator. We are in trouble.
I'm Arizona State Senator Sylvia Allen. I want to explain SB 1070 which I
voted for and was just signed by Governor Jan Brewer.
Rancher Rob Krantz was murdered by the drug cartel on his ranch a month ago.
I participated in a senate hearing two weeks ago on the border violence,
here is just some of the highlights from those who testified.

The people who live within 60 to 80 miles of the Arizona/Mexico Border have
for years been terrorized and have pleaded for help to stop the daily
invasion of humans who cross their property . One Rancher testified that 300
to 1200 people a DAY come across his ranch vandalizing his property,
stealing his vehicles and property, cutting down his fences, and leaving
trash. In the last two years he has found 17 dead bodies and two Koran
bibles.

Another rancher testified that daily drugs are brought across his ranch in a
military operation. A point man with a machine gun goes in front, 1/2 mile
behind are the guards fully armed, 1/2 mile behind them are the drugs,
behind the drugs 1/2 mile are more guards. These people are violent and they
will kill anyone who gets in the way. This was not the only rancher we heard
that day that talked about the drug trains.

One man told of two illegals who came upon his property one shot in the
back and the other in the arm by the drug runners who had forced them to
carry the drugs and then shot them. Daily they listen to gun fire during the
night it is not safe to leave his family alone on the ranch and they can't
leave the ranch for fear of nothing being left when they come back.

The border patrol is not on the border. They have set up 60 miles away with
check points that do nothing to stop the invasion. They are not allowed to
use force in stopping anyone who is entering. They run around chasing them,
if they get their hands on them then they can take them back across the
border.

Federal prisons have over 35% illegals and 20% of Arizona prisons are
filled with illegals. In the last few years 80% of our law enforcement that
have been killed or wounded have been by an illegal.

The majority of people coming now are people we need to be worried about.
The ranchers told us that they have seen a change in the people coming they
are not just those who are looking for work and a better life.

The Federal Government has refused for years to do anything to help the
border states. We have been over run and once they are here we have the
burden of funding state services that they use. Education cost have been
over a billion dollars. The healthcare cost billions of dollars. Our State
is broke, $3.5 billion deficit and we have many serious decisions to make.
One is that we do not have the money to care for any who are not here
legally. It has to stop.
The border can be secured. We have the technology we have the ability to
stop this invasion. We must know who is coming and they must come in an
organized manner legally so that we can assimilate them into our population
and protect the sovereignty of our country. We are a nation of laws. We have
a responsibility to protect our citizens and to protect the integrity of our
country and the government which we live under.

I would give amnesty today to many, but here is the problem, we dare not do
this until the Border is secure. It will do no good to forgive them because
thousands will come behind them and we will be over run to the point that
there will no longer be the United States of America but a North American
Union of open borders. I ask you what form of government will we live under?
How long will it be before we will be just like Mexico, Canada or any of the
other Central American or South American countries? We have already lost our
language, everything must be printed in Spanish also. We have already lost
our history it is no longer taught in our schools. And we have lost our
borders.

The leftist media has distorted what SB 1070 will do. It is not going to set
up a Nazi Germany. Are you kidding. The ACLU and the leftist courts will do
everything to protect those who are here illegally, but it was an effort to
try and stop illegals from setting up businesses, and employment, and
receiving state services and give the ability to local law enforcement when
there is probable cause like a traffic stop to determine if they are here
legally. Federal law is very clear if you are here on a visa you must have
your papers on you at all times. That is the law. In Arizona all you need to
show you are a legal citizen is a driver license, MVD identification card,
Native American Card, or a Military ID. This is what you need to vote, get a
hunting license, etc.. So nothing new has been added to this law. No one is
going to be stopped walking down the street etc... The Socialist who are in
power in DC are angry because we dare try and do something and that
something the Socialist wants us to do is just let them come. They want the
"Transformation" to continue.

Maybe it is too late to save America. Maybe we are not worthy of freedom
anymore. But as an elected official I must try to do what I can to protect
our Constitutional Republic. Living in America is not a right just because
you can walk across the border. Being an American is a responsibility and it
comes by respecting and upholding the Constitution the law of our land which
says what you must do to be a citizen of this country. Freedom is not free.

[Blacky]

I had no idea it had escalated to that point. It's not easy to sell a huge ranch and move further from the border.

[Freeman]

Originally Posted by Blacky

I had no idea it had escalated to that point. It's not easy to sell a huge ranch and move further from the border.

I'd defend it.. With guns, big ones..

[Freeman]

YAY! Double post! (That's what I get for posting on my iPhone)

[SoCal LS-L]

The problem is the liberal jerks and special interests in this country are a louder voice, I think primarily because citizens wholly FEAR becoming labeled a "racist" for speaking out against illegal immigration issues.

This rape of our borders is going to continue until the nation is galvanized by some tragedy far greater than some rancher or border patrol agent being killed. There is a point where being "politically correct" amounts to basically bending over and taking it dry..... which is what we have been doing since the 60's.

Wouldnt it be great if we could redeploy all of our troops from Iraq to the US/Mexico border? See if the scumbag cartels have the firepower THEN to desecrate our southern border and kill our citizens at will. I hope in my lifetime to see a military border set there in the likes of N. Korea/S. Korea.

America is being raped of its public services and blue-collar jobs due to the influx of non-documented and non tax-paying illegals, the same folks who last year lined So. California streets flipping off white people after defeating the US in soccer. I have never wanted to actually do serious physical harm to someone before that date.

Its bad enough that our country is being raped and pillaged, but the icing on the cake is that a lot of these people are stealing identities, committing violent crimes, openly desecrating everything we stand for, and have ZERO appreciation for what they have been given here. I applaud Arizona for taking a stand, and I hope they dont buckle to the pressure of those who shouldnt even be here, and the loudmouth special interest groups that DO NOT support this countries best interests.

[sowise]

I wonder for the drug cartels that have large armed groups traveling across the border if it would be illegal to engage them as a property owner? I mean technically there has been a long standing "War on Drugs" in this country so in a way wouldn't they be enemy combatants?

[SoCal LS-L]

Originally Posted by sowise

I wonder for the drug cartels that have large armed groups traveling across the border if it would be illegal to engage them as a property owner? I mean technically there has been a long standing "War on Drugs" in this country so in a way wouldn't they be enemy combatants?

That would be great, but unfortunately I dont think those guys are carrying slingshots. I wouldnt engage any of em without a small army of my own. The US needs to institute a marshal law that legalizes deadly force besides just in INDIVIDUAL self-defense. It will never happen but how great would it be for thousands of Americans to descend on the border in collaboration with the border patrol and kick their smuggling azzes into next week. 200 years ago this would have been not only legal, but expected.

[Thursday23]

I certainly don't think of myself as a bleeding heart, or liberal, or leftist, etc...

However,

I think the primary objection to this bill is that the new written standard is not probable cause, but rather reasonable suspicion...

Our police are charged with enforcing the "rule of law", but it seems this law puts them in a more tenuous position than before.

Previously it was unlawful to be in this country illegally. Previously it was unlawful to not present ID when requested from law enforcement. This law doesn't seem to introduce any 'new' laws, but rather just broadens when law enforcement must seek to address the previously exisiting laws.

Obviously this has been a hot topic here in Arizona, but my impression is that it will not stand as written and passed.

Meanwhile, white as I am, and even though Phoenix is well North of the border, I still plan to continue carrying documention with me verifying my nationality. 97' and sunny here today, I might just get too tanned before you know it...

"May I see your license, registration, and birth certificate please..."

[sowise]

Have they said what kind of ID or proof is needed? I assume if you admit to not being a citizen then you need either a green card or visa which you should carry at all times anyway. If you are a citizen then it sounds like a basic drivers license similar document would work. Doesn't even sound like they are requiring picture ID either.

If you are white and don't actually have proof of citizenship, what country would they assume you are from? lol.

[SoCal LS-L]

Originally Posted by sowise

If you are white and don't actually have proof of citizenship, what country would they assume you are from? lol.

Those damn Canadians may be flocking here in droves and bringing their filthy sport with them!!

[benebob]

This law is unconstitutional and will not stop the problem. Not hiring illegals will stop the problem, not using illegal drugs will stop the problem, not buying produce from farmers who use illegals will stop the problem, not eating at restaurants who hire illegals will stop the problem. The answer is simple, and the solution is simple. Don't hire illegals and they will have no reason to come here nor a reason to stay here. Arrest the good Americans who are getting rich through the hiring of illegals (FYI Barry Goldwater employeed illegals at his house). They are the ones who created the problems we have now with illegal immigration and they are the ones who should serve time in jail and pay for their illegal actions!

Should Arizona be serious about controlling their population of illegals by force, then there is a perfectly legal way for them to do so the governor can simply enact marshal law. Not that hard and it will stand up in court if there is good reason for doing so.

Sowise, since you say you served in the military why are you supporting a law which violates the Constitution that you swore to uphold? You can't save America by taking away its reason for existing! Freedom for all its citizens, not just the ones who don't look like they might be illegal!

[MadMaxSvx]

Originally Posted by sowise

If you are white and don't actually have proof of citizenship, what country would they assume you are from? lol.

Hmmm...There is white ppl in other american countries my friend.
I hope this dont turn in a race matter. In that case a new HOLOCAUST will come.
I mean, we need to separate the INVASION (thats what i think illegal inmigration is) from RACISM.

[lhopp77]

Originally Posted by benebob

This law is unconstitutional and will not stop the problem. Not hiring illegals will stop the problem, not using illegal drugs will stop the problem, not buying produce from farmers who use illegals will stop the problem, not eating at restaurants who hire illegals will stop the problem. The answer is simple, and the solution is simple. Don't hire illegals and they will have no reason to come here nor a reason to stay here. Arrest the good Americans who are getting rich through the hiring of illegals (FYI Barry Goldwater employeed illegals at his house). They are the ones who created the problems we have now with illegal immigration and they are the ones who should serve time in jail and pay for their illegal actions!

Should Arizona be serious about controlling their population of illegals by force, then there is a perfectly legal way for them to do so the governor can simply enact marshal law. Not that hard and it will stand up in court if there is good reason for doing so.

Sowise, since you say you served in the military why are you supporting a law which violates the Constitution that you swore to uphold? You can't save America by taking away its reason for existing! Freedom for all its citizens, not just the ones who don't look like they might be illegal!

Apparently you have not read the law. I am not a constitutional lawyer, but I see nothing in it that violates the constitution. The main provisions simply enforce current federal laws and just puts the burden back on the feds to take action. Google Arizona bill 1070 and read it.

Lee

[SoCal LS-L]

Originally Posted by MadMaxSvx

Hmmm...There is white ppl in other american countries my friend.
I hope this dont turn in a race matter. In that case a new HOLOCAUST will come.
I mean, we need to separate the INVASION (thats what i think illegal inmigration is) from RACISM.

I dont think its about race here..... a lot of my hispanic friends who work 40 hours a week and pay taxes dont like the idea of illegals taking blue collar jobs and committing crimes like identity theft.

Back in the 19th century a hotbutton issue was the Irish immigrating into the east coast cities.... and Irish were white. The "native" English folks of the time were brutal to them and did things that would be considered unconcionable today.

[K_Dub]

Happy Cinco De Mayo everybody.



Wait, where am I again.