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Did the dealership screw me? - Torque converter not locking up?
Hello all,
I was reading some old threads about TC's, trannys, etc and came across something one member said to another who was having TC and tranny woes. They said "I hope you weren't the victim of the Legacy tranny in an SVX trick". Well, I searched some more and couldn't find additional information. I'm assuming this is a trick (rip-off) the stealerships do sometimes when replacing a tranny in an SVX. Is that correct? I'm asking b/c the original tranny recently went out on my '92 SVX after 136,000 miles. The stealership replaced it, but the car and the tranny definitely don't run the same as it used to. 1.) TC doesn't lock-up in 4th...ever. 2.) RPM's are much higher at highway speeds...2500rpm @ 60mph, 3000rmp @ 75mph, etc. (Most people seem to run 3000rpm @ 90mph). I seriously think my car would redline at 90mph right now in 4th. 3.) My hwy mpg sucks now...I used to get about 26mpg cruising on the hwy, now it's 18mpg. 4.) Excessive heat coming from under the dash and floorboards. The bottom of my seat actually felt like it was heated...like I had some kind of "cold weather seat package" option. So was I "tricked" and now have a Legacy tranny? Just trying to gather some info before I go in on Monday and raise hell. Thanks, Kurt (*sorry if this is in the wrong forum)
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K.R. '92 Ebony SVX LS-L '91 GMC Syclone '92 GMC Typhoon |
#2
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Its possible that they put in a different final drive tranny. Either that or your torque converter not locking could be the only cause of the raised rpm. You should see about 2000 rpm at 60 in lockup and that will go up by about 400-500 rpm when the torque converter is not locked.
A legacy tranny has a different final drive ratio than the svx so swapping one in requires the changing of not only the transmission but also the gears in the rear differential. If the rear diff gears are not changed then the awd will bind and eventually stop working. This happened to a member here and it was a long time before he realized his awd wouldn't work and that the tranny was from another car. The svx final drive is 3.54. The legacy or impreza or forester range from 3.70 to 4.44. The low 3.54 drive in the svx allows for those 3000 rpm at 90mph cruises, while the taller gearing in the other transmissions will raise the rpm - like you are seeing. It actually is common now and considered an upgrade to some to get a legacy or impreza transmission swap. People like them for the taller gearing which gives faster launches but it does heighten cruising rpm and will lower highway mpg. Part of the swap is changing out the ring and pinion gears in the rear differential to match the new tranny. You'll see many threads on here about 4.11 or 4.44 tranny swaps - these are the legacy and impreza trannys. I would take your svx back to the place that did the work and have them figure out why the TC is not locking first without mention of the possibility of a legacy tranny in there. It could be something as simple as a temperature sensor. Once they have fixed the lockup issue check what rpm you are running at 60 and 90 - should be 2k and 3k and if that does not match then take it back in and raise hell. good luck!
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Matt Locker Link 2015 BRZ Limited 6MT 92 Ebony LS-L ECUtune Stage2av1, Z32 MAF, 370cc injectors, TomsSVX intake, BontragerWorks 22mm RSB #003, HID Hi and Lo beams, OT endlink and bushing mods, PWR Aluminum radiator, Harvey's QC shift kit, 2.5" flowmaster 80 exhaust, 17" Michelin Pilot Sport A/S, Poly sway bar bushings, Slotted Bradi rotors, AFBeefcake powdercoated calipers, 97 grill, and a huge set of air horns. 300,000 miles and counting 92 Ebony LS-L. ecutune stage1v4, motorsport 1pc pulley. Garage Queen - sold to Dad in upstate NY 155,000 miles 19 Subaru Ascent Premium - -Hers !. 89 DL 4x4 little red wagon - a.k.a. The immortal suby. 275k R.I.P. |
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Check out your rear differential. Is there a final drive stamped on it? What is it? Your numbers tell me that it should be a 4.11 final drive. In 4.11 final drive, you won't redline at 90....90 should be about 3800. Now, about the TC not locking up....the TC won't lock up until it reads a certain temperature from the TCU. Maybe the TCU is cooked and not telling it to engage. Either way, you need to go back to the person/stealership who replaced it and make them fix it.
I wouldn't believe a word that came out of a dealership's mouth. Legacy transmission being a downgrade? And what is the stock SVX trannny? Don't tell me that's a deal because those blow up all the time courtesy of their crazy-ass final drive. This dealership sounds like they think you're a fool and are trying to get your money.
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-Jason (8/23/07-Present) 1995 Subaru SVX LSi (197k) Polo Green (#1102) 03/95 Mods: DDM Tuning 4500k 35w Low Beam HID, 100w H3 Bulbs, Extra Ground Cables, 15 minute $12.96 mod, svxfiles designed transmission mount (), sporting a "new" tail light bar, silver BBS rims, custom power steering cooler (one that doesn't dump ATF constantly), new negative lead cable, no more third or fourth gear (1977-Present) 1977 Chevrolet Corvette (81k) Silver (12/01/2011-Present) 2005 Subaru Outback 2.5i Limited 5MT (97k) I have a bad feeling about this. -Obi Wan Kenobi |
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Thanks for the info guys.
I will look for any numbers on the rear diff. The tranny also doesn't look the same as the old. It seems smaller than the original tranny that was in the car. The dipstick/filler tube is also different. At this point, I'll be surprised if it's not a Legacy tranny.
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K.R. '92 Ebony SVX LS-L '91 GMC Syclone '92 GMC Typhoon |
#5
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From the outside there is no difference in size or shape between the SVX and Leg Trans.
Also, the rear diff will most likely still have the 3.545 tag on it but have different internals installed. Since the mounting studs are different between a Leg and SVX rear diff, it is much easier to use the original SVX rear diff cover. Start off by getting them to correct the TC lockup. Then get back to us with an assortment of engine/road speeds.
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Dave - 03 Baja - 92 SVX - 86 Brat - 08 OB 3.0 |
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Let us know what you find out.
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. Earl .... ... .... ><SVX(*> Subaru Ambassador [COLOR=”silver”]1992 Tri Color L[/COLOR] ~45K (06/91) #2430 1992 Dark Teal LS-L ~184K (05/91) #0739 1992 Claret LS-L ~196K (05/91) #0831 1992 Pearl LS-L ~103K (06/91) #1680 1992 Pearl LS-L ~151K (06/91) #2229 1992 Dark Teal LS ~150K (07/91) #3098 (parts car) 1992 White LS-L ~139K (08/92) #6913 1993 25th AE ~98K (02/93) #164 1993 25th AE ~58K (02/93) #176 1993 25th AE ~107K (02/93) #215 1993 25th AE ~162K (02/93) #223 1994 Laguna Blue Pearl LSi ~124K (1/94) #2408 1994 Laguna Blue Pearl LSi ~144K (10/93) #1484 1994 Laguna Blue Pearl LSi ~68K (10/93) #1525 1994 Barcelona Red LSi ~46K (02/94) #2624 1994 Pearl LSi ~41K (12/93) #1961 1995 Bordeaux Pearl LSi ~70K (02/95) #855 1996 Polo Green LSi ~95K (03/96) #872 1997 Bordeaux Pearl LSi ~55K (08/96) #097 2003 Brilliant Red LS1 Convertible ~29K (04/03) #8951 1999 Magnetic Red LS1 Coupe ~33K (04/99) #6420 My Email | Old Locker | New Locker | Picture of 15 of the 19 |
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2000 RPMs at 60? Hmmm, why are my RPMs at 60 always somewhere around 2500 or slightly higher? It has been like this since the day I bought it more then a year ago. I know the tranny was rebuilt right before I bought it, but it sure as hell sint a legacy tranny.
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Quote:
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Matt Locker Link 2015 BRZ Limited 6MT 92 Ebony LS-L ECUtune Stage2av1, Z32 MAF, 370cc injectors, TomsSVX intake, BontragerWorks 22mm RSB #003, HID Hi and Lo beams, OT endlink and bushing mods, PWR Aluminum radiator, Harvey's QC shift kit, 2.5" flowmaster 80 exhaust, 17" Michelin Pilot Sport A/S, Poly sway bar bushings, Slotted Bradi rotors, AFBeefcake powdercoated calipers, 97 grill, and a huge set of air horns. 300,000 miles and counting 92 Ebony LS-L. ecutune stage1v4, motorsport 1pc pulley. Garage Queen - sold to Dad in upstate NY 155,000 miles 19 Subaru Ascent Premium - -Hers !. 89 DL 4x4 little red wagon - a.k.a. The immortal suby. 275k R.I.P. |
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Ok, so I took the SVX to the dealership today to have the TC issue addressed. But convienently, the tech who installed the new tranny isn't in the shop until the middle of the week or ealry next week (when I have a day off). So now it won't be looked at until Aug 1st.
The service person at the desk was really starting to aggravate me. Here's how the conversation went: Me: The TC isn't locking-up in 4th gear as it should be after driving a few miles. Since it's not locking in 4th, my cruising rpm's are about 500rpm's higher than they should be. At 60mph, they should be ~2000, at 90mph they should be ~3000. Him: Where are you getting those numbers from? Me: From myself b/c I've owned 2 SVX's before, and from other SVX owners. Him: Well, I've sold a few SVX's and my Maxima's rpms aren't that low. Besides, I don't drive 90mph. Me: We're talking about Subarus right? What's the gearing in your Maxima? Him: I don't know. Me: The SVX has a short final drive, so the rpms will be rather low with the TC locked. The TC is definitely not locking up in 4th gear so that needs to be fixed. Him: Well, we'll get you scheduled and hook it up to the computers, etc. and see what we find out. I'll be sure to speak with someone else in the service dept. besides this guy. So what could cause the TC to not lock-up as it should: - faulty tranny temp sensor - faulty tcu - ??????
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K.R. '92 Ebony SVX LS-L '91 GMC Syclone '92 GMC Typhoon |
#10
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Give it a good 15 minute drive for the tranny to warm up then, while doing 60mph (cruise on) pull the shifter into 3 (note RPM increase) then back into D. There should be 2 distinct drops in RPM within about 5 seconds.
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David B. SVXipedia @ SVX-IW.COM -- SVX Information Warehouse 2.0 coming...eventually! Ebony 1992 SVX LS-L 5 spd Koni/GC Stebro 187k miles RIP (Rust In Pieces) 1993 SVX 5 spd Koni/GC Stebro Polyurethane bushings still available! |
#11
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Quote:
Cruising on flat, straight hwy at 60mph RPMs are at ~2450-2500,...manually downshift to 3rd...RPMs go to ~3100-3200....shift back to fourth and there is only one distinct drop in RPM back to ~2450-2500...no TC lock-up. Also, while cruising at 60mph (RPM 2450-2500) for many miles,... let off the gas and the RPMs drop like a rock to 1700-1750....again b/c TC not locked-up. And the service idiot behind his computer tells me everything is working fine.
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K.R. '92 Ebony SVX LS-L '91 GMC Syclone '92 GMC Typhoon |
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if you put the selector in 3 and then decelerate to a stop does the tranny do any kind of weird shifting or hunting for gears?
Let me move this to the technical forum where some of the more knowledgeable tranny guys will see it
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Matt Locker Link 2015 BRZ Limited 6MT 92 Ebony LS-L ECUtune Stage2av1, Z32 MAF, 370cc injectors, TomsSVX intake, BontragerWorks 22mm RSB #003, HID Hi and Lo beams, OT endlink and bushing mods, PWR Aluminum radiator, Harvey's QC shift kit, 2.5" flowmaster 80 exhaust, 17" Michelin Pilot Sport A/S, Poly sway bar bushings, Slotted Bradi rotors, AFBeefcake powdercoated calipers, 97 grill, and a huge set of air horns. 300,000 miles and counting 92 Ebony LS-L. ecutune stage1v4, motorsport 1pc pulley. Garage Queen - sold to Dad in upstate NY 155,000 miles 19 Subaru Ascent Premium - -Hers !. 89 DL 4x4 little red wagon - a.k.a. The immortal suby. 275k R.I.P. |
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K.R. '92 Ebony SVX LS-L '91 GMC Syclone '92 GMC Typhoon |
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sorry to point out the ovious but have you checked the tranny fluid level?
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- John ASE certified Master Tech W/ X1 Twin City Fleet repair, St. Paul, MN need work done? Have tools will travel
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Quote:
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K.R. '92 Ebony SVX LS-L '91 GMC Syclone '92 GMC Typhoon |
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