Remote Mount Turbo

[BackWoodsBob]

Are you using the stock MAF? If so how much air flow can the stock MAF correct for before it maxes out?

[Freeman]

Originally Posted by BackWoodsBob

Are you using the stock MAF? If so how much air flow can the stock MAF correct for before it maxes out?

Use a Z32 MAF.

[BackWoodsBob]

Thank you.
I've read through this thread before, but that was weeks ago.
Slated to do it again here shortly.

[Subaru Alliance]

ok so it's time for a much needed update with a new problem, hopefully an easy one to solve though. I got my aluminum pipe in and have been running around getting clamps and hoses and mocking stuff up, cutting, fitting, cutting fitting, etc. etc. On to the pics.

Okay here I used some high temp RTV to attach the MAF to an adapter so it would seal up.


Here it is going together with the adapter and some hoses in preparation for the aluminum piping.


My first attempt to get the MAF mounted and get the tubing mounted.


My second attempt to mount everything up. I scrapped the first attempt because the pipe was hitting the strut mount and the noise of it vibrating with the engine running would have made me want to drive off a cliff.

[Subaru Alliance]

As of right now with my current set up, the MAF is within an inch of the stock placement and the TB. I measured the stock intake duct and came up with about 20 inches distance between the MAF and the TB. My current setup is around 17 inches plus another 2.5-3 inches for the hose, so it's basically stock distance from the TB.

The problem is I cut the big elbow off the intake ductwork and when I fired it up for testing, it is acting like someone is unplugging the MAF, it starts and runs for a second then stalls. I had the big hose blocked off and then I decided to unplug it and let it be a HUGE vacuum leak, it ran better for about 2 seconds and then stalled out. I am already devising a plan to re use that part of the duct work and extending the hose, but I am looking for some sort of input on it, would this be cause of the stalling? Here are some pics.

Here is the hose in question


Here is the ductwork piece I cut out and am most likely gonna re mount/ re duct it back in.


This is where the hose connects to on the underside of the Throttle Body


More pics will come tomorrow as I continue to make progress on this. The way everything is oriented the MAF is located just above the CAT on the passenger side, I will wrap the CAT to keep the heat down and that will be the only spot where the intake piping will come so close to the exhaust.

[icingdeath88]

I don't know if I brought this up before or not, but I just realized something. If the compressed air from the turbo to the intake is too hot, the MAF won't work right. So some kind of intercooling is a must.

Yes, that big line is the feed for the idle air control valve. The car won't idle without the idle air control valve getting metered air...

Basically you need to put a nipple or something in the shiny pipe between the MAF and the black box that feeds the two throttle bodies, and connect that to the IACV feed.

[Subaru Alliance]

Originally Posted by icingdeath88

Yes, that big line is the feed for the idle air control valve. The car won't idle without the idle air control valve getting metered air...

Basically you need to put a nipple or something in the shiny pipe between the MAF and the black box that feeds the two throttle bodies, and connect that to the IACV feed.

I appreciate the fast response. I figured it had something to do with that, because so far that is the only thing that has changed. Aside from relocating the MAF that idle air control hose was the only physical change up to this point.


As far as the hot air throwing off the MAF I figured that as well, being as the hot air won't cool the wire down as well as cool air would, but to combat this I will wrap the exhaust where it comes closest to the intake pipe. I already have a plan to re duct in the piece for the idle air hose, I will lengthen the hose to accommodate the new location of the nipple. Here are a few more pics of the mock up. more to come tomorrow as the progress continues.

Here are some pics of the new MAF location mocked up




Here are some pics of my gauges cluster getting prepped for the gauges.


Here is the front of it

[Tapani]

Good work,

I'd be surprised if the air would be too hot for the MAF just after startup and on idle conditions. The compressor does no work at that point. I would start by plumbing metered air to the idle control and keep the MAF where you had it first. I would think the MAF signal is compensated for ambient temp - what the range is, that I do not know.

Tapani

[Subaru Alliance]

Originally Posted by Tapani

Good work,

I'd be surprised if the air would be too hot for the MAF just after startup and on idle conditions. The compressor does no work at that point. I would start by plumbing metered air to the idle control and keep the MAF where you had it first. I would think the MAF signal is compensated for ambient temp - what the range is, that I do not know.

Tapani

I thought about trying to keep the MAF where I first tried to put it which was right on the box feeding the TB, but I figured trying to keep it the stock distance would yield the best results. I am thinking maybe the time delay between the air going through the MAF, and the air actually reaching the intake manifold would be figured in, and I was afraid if I moved it to close to the throttle body maybe the ECU has a half second delay to compensate for the placement of the MAF in stock location, and I may throw that off by moving it to close. This theory is pure speculation of course.

[neverLift]

In regards to the MAF and heat, its not the heat from the exhaust you're worried about. It is a good idea to wrap it/heat shield the MAF/intake, but much of the heat in the intake charge comes from the compressor itself as compressing air always creates heat. Although the length of intake piping may conduct/radiate enough heat away since its exposed to airflow under the car. If so, then its a non-issue.

cheers
-Evan

[icingdeath88]

Originally Posted by Subaru Alliance

I thought about trying to keep the MAF where I first tried to put it which was right on the box feeding the TB, but I figured trying to keep it the stock distance would yield the best results. I am thinking maybe the time delay between the air going through the MAF, and the air actually reaching the intake manifold would be figured in, and I was afraid if I moved it to close to the throttle body maybe the ECU has a half second delay to compensate for the placement of the MAF in stock location, and I may throw that off by moving it to close. This theory is pure speculation of course.

Nah, it won't matter. You could concievably put the MAF before the turbo, and as long as you're using a BPV instead of a BOV, it ought to work. It doesn't matter where along the intake tract the MAF is, it's still reading the amount of air entering the engine. Because that's the only place it has to go, any flow = flow into the engine.

Originally Posted by neverLift

In regards to the MAF and heat, its not the heat from the exhaust you're worried about. It is a good idea to wrap it/heat shield the MAF/intake, but much of the heat in the intake charge comes from the compressor itself as compressing air always creates heat. Although the length of intake piping may conduct/radiate enough heat away since its exposed to airflow under the car. If so, then its a non-issue.

I dunno, it's possible, but I kind of doubt it. I'd definitely do some kind of intercooling.

Maybe one of the air-to-water ones from frozenboost.com can be put along the intake pipe under the car. Like this: http://www.frozenboost.com/product_i...5616c2d4781699

[92 SVX]

Originally Posted by neverLift

In regards to the MAF and heat, its not the heat from the exhaust you're worried about. It is a good idea to wrap it/heat shield the MAF/intake, but much of the heat in the intake charge comes from the compressor itself as compressing air always creates heat. Although the length of intake piping may conduct/radiate enough heat away since its exposed to airflow under the car. If so, then its a non-issue.

cheers
-Evan

Originally Posted by icingdeath88

Nah, it won't matter. You could concievably put the MAF before the turbo, and as long as you're using a BPV instead of a BOV, it ought to work. It doesn't matter where along the intake tract the MAF is, it's still reading the amount of air entering the engine. Because that's the only place it has to go, any flow = flow into the engine.





I dunno, it's possible, but I kind of doubt it. I'd definitely do some kind of intercooling.

Maybe one of the air-to-water ones from frozenboost.com can be put along the intake pipe under the car. Like this: http://www.frozenboost.com/product_i...5616c2d4781699

The fact is the air coming in will be colder air, remote turbo the intake air is coming from the back like that. And the distance traveled from the turbo should cool the air significantly a intercooler may help but I would doubt it would do very much.
I would wrap any exhaust piping that comes close to any intake piping to keep that heat in, helping the turbo and keeping heat soak from the intake. Use a turbo blanket and as icing said use a bypass instead of a BOV because if your ecu already thinks that air is on the way into the engine it will cause the mix to be incorrect until the O2 sensor can tell the ecu that its incorrect.

[icingdeath88]

Originally Posted by 92 SVX

The fact is the air coming in will be colder air, remote turbo the intake air is coming from the back like that. And the distance traveled from the turbo should cool the air significantly a intercooler may help but I would doubt it would do very much.
I would wrap any exhaust piping that comes close to any intake piping to keep that heat in, helping the turbo and keeping heat soak from the intake. Use a turbo blanket and as icing said use a bypass instead of a BOV because if your ecu already thinks that air is on the way into the engine it will cause the mix to be incorrect until the O2 sensor can tell the ecu that its incorrect.

NO. A BOV between the turbo and MAF will do better the way he's got it set up.

[92 SVX]

Originally Posted by icingdeath88

NO. A BOV between the turbo and MAF will do better the way he's got it set up.

Ah, yes reread what you wrote, and if the maf is before the turbo a bypass, as it is now it shouldnt make a difference as long as the valve is ahead of(in the flow) the MAF

[Subaru Alliance]

Ok so for some more updates. I have everything plumbed from the turbo to the intake manifold. Originally I wanted to keep the MAF about the stock distance away from the TB, but it was proving to be a bit of a headache so I have moved it closer to the TB. The car idles a bit rough now, kinda rhythmically bouncing from 750 -500 rpms. I am not sure if it is because of the new MAF location, or because the piping into the air box does get pretty warm, so I may end up wrapping that portion of it as well. here are a few pics.

This was the 3rd attempt at the air box.


This was the first attempt at plumbing from the "air box" to going under the car


This was the final product, I removed the RUBBER 90* and replaced it with an aluminum 90*


I have to get some plumbers tape to support the piping because it hangs a bit low right now, and run a vacuum line from the BOV to the intake. I will be knocking that out here in a few hours because it is too hot and I am to sun burnt to do it now. so a few more hours, let it cool down outside, and I will post up some pics of the rest of the piping and a functional BOV.