Chike's/ Tom's N/A performance thread

[black beast]

Okay, since people are starting threads on adding turbos and s/c to the SVX, I thought it would only be fair to the n/a lovers that I start one for n/a upgrades.

I really want to keep this focused on topic, so please no hijacking!

Note: I am sorry, Chike had rather nice pics, forsome reason I cant do pics on this site, if someone could tell me how I can have them right up!


Stage 0:
Before embarking on any upgrade path with the SVX, complete ALL necessary maintenance. Radiator flush, timing belt change, engine seals, rear wheel bearings, O2 sensors, etc. Once your car is running properly, only then are you ready to upgrade!

Stage 1:
Best upgrade when looking to make more power is to fix the tall gearing found in all awd SVXs (3.545 for US models and 3.70 for JDM/OZ/Euro models). The only trans worth putting in this car is the 4.44 trans and R160 rear diff found in the '96 through mid '98 Legacy Outbacks.



The trans typically runs $500-$600 and the rear diff another $150. The trans swap is listed as a 5.5hr job, and the rear diff swap will add at least another 3-4 hours to the tab. So this complete upgrade will run close to $1,000.00.

After the swap, I see 25-27mpg highway, and around 21-22mpg in mixed city/highway.

Your SVX now has the right gears to build serious n/a performance on!!!

Stage 2:
Now you have the right gears, let's improve the flow:

Air Filter: Green, K&N or STI panel filter (you could also go with Dayle's CAI). The cost will be anywhere between $35-$160 depending on which filter you go with.




Phenolic Spacers: From www.outlawengineering.com/. These spacers go between the intake manifold and the engine block and help reduce the rate of heat transfer which will keep your intake manifold cool. Cost is roughly $100.00.




ECUTune Stage 2v5 w/ Z32 MAF: The stage 1 package is great but if you plan on making 240+hp, you'll need to get the stage 2 from http://www.ecutune.com/svx-stage2.htm. Cost is $429 for just the software, or $647 for the software with Z32 MAF and electrical connector.



This upgrade isn't available for '96-'97 SVXs yet, however, Mychailo's MAF bypass mod will work on all SVXs:

http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/showthread.php?t=29386


Impreza FPR: This mod will definitely be needed as you start making more n/a power. Get one from a '00-'05 Impreza RS (not WRX). One from a '99-'04 Legacy GT should also be the same. This fpr ups max fuel pressure from 36psi (stock) to 43psi. Cost ~$75.
Part Number: 22670AA240



Exhaust: Go with whatever system design you like best (i.e. true duals or 2-into-1) but use the following rule-of-thumb: For a true dual go with piping no larger than 2" ID. In a 2-into-1 set-up, when the pipe comes into one, go with nothing larger than 2.5" ID.

In my set-up as I wanted to maximize flow, I removed the two primary cats, had 2" OD pipe go into a 2-into-1 high flow cat from Maganflow:



...followed by 2.5" OD pipe back to a glass-pack then to a single inlet, dual outlet camaro-style magnaflow muffler leading to the tips on each side of the car:



Expect the exhaust parts and labor to run you anywhere between $500-$1,000 (higher side if you use stainless piping and mandrel bends).

-Chike

Ground wires: These are attached to your negative battery terminal. They lead to multiple grounding points in your engine bay, the basic idea is that with the electrical system so heavily grounded the resistance is reduced. I have them on my car, I noticed something. Never had it dyno'd to prove it.

Stage 3:

The idea for upgrading the intake camshafts has been tossed around on this site for years. The specs I used were the brainchild of oab_au who based his theory off of the stock specs Wawazat measured a few years ago. Oab_au had helped his son modify his Z motor (which used similar internals to the EG33).

The stock specs are as follows:

Intake Cams: 7.0mm lift, 236 degrees duration
Exhaust Cams: 8.0mm lift, 244 degrees duration

I picked up a set of stock intake cams from TomsSVX around the end of summer and began exchanging PM's with Harvey...

Stock Cams


The ideal intake cam specs Harvey recommended for a 4EAT SVX are as follows:

8.0mm of lift, 240 degrees of duration

From here, I began speaking with several different camshaft grinders including Webcamshafts and Ram Performance. However, all roads led to www.deltacam.com in Tacoma, WA. Their sales guy Scott was very helpful and going back-n-forth with him and Harvey we settled on the following specs for the weld-n-grind on the intake cams (their machine wasn't set-up to do 240 degrees of duration):

8.0mm of lift, 247 degrees duration w/ the entire profile retarded by 7 degrees

The cost was $150.00 per cam excl/ shipping:

Modified Cams


SubaFreak and TomsSVX were very gracious to lend their assistance in the installation of these modifed cams, and on Saturday, November 5th I drove up to NJ to do the install.

We decided to pull my engine, even though it wasn't necessary, as it would give us extra working room on this install:





The valve covers were pulled, and while I replaced the seals, TomsSVX and SubaFreak installed the performance intake cams:



The Ride & Drive
As lift was increased by 1.0mm, there's more power throughout the rev band w/o a noticeable reduction in low-end power despite the slight increase in duration. My stall speed is still 2,500rpms and launches are still quick but w/o the excessive wheelspin and axle hop I experienced before (i.e. only slightly less torque down low).

As the rpms rise, the power comes on with a rush between 3,500-4,000rpms and from there it's a really quick blast to redline!

I can't say how much extra power these cams make as the stock MAF is maxed out between 240-250hp (per Mychailo's extensive testing with his wide-band and MAF voltage reader). I would make a conservative estimate of between 10-15hp, but to fully realize the performance potential of this upgrade the ECUTune Stage 2v5 w/ the Z32 MAF is a necessity!


Chike, Tom, Anyone else, please, add to this, I know there is more. I will add to it as I find good stuff on the network.
-Black Beast

[black beast]

Stage 4: -

MSD Stacker: Dayle sells it, it is $550 there, and it requires NO cutting.

Ported/Polished/Thermally coated intake and injector stacks. This can be done at just about any performance shop that I have ever gone to. They can either do it themselves OR send it out to a guy they know that does a good job. Ceramic coatings are a great way to do this, and if you want a shinning manifold, there is a way they can make it a shinny finish.
Cost comes out to about $350 for the intake manifold. $175 per header (stock)

Blueprinted injectors and fuel rails.

[Mission]

The tranmission swap is a great bang for the buck modification but I think it is a little much to start with. Where does the ECU Tune Stage 1 fit in?

[ridered777]

Went to Outlaw's site - they don't even have a Subaru section listed, much less SVX - how does one actually obtain those spacers?

[Mission]

Email Sean of Outlaw Engineering directly through the sales email address contact.

[sicksubie]

just call them and order it... get the 5 piece set and it should be $107 including shipping

[svxfiles]

Originally Posted by sicksubie

just call them and order it... get the 5 piece set and it should be $107 including shipping

Only get the 5 piece set if you are going to install all 5 pieces.
You can get the MUCH less labor intensive, 3 piece set for less money.
Read up on the install before you decide.

[Myxalplyx]

Originally Posted by black beast

Air Filter: Green, K&N or STI panel filter (you could also go with Dayle's CAI). The cost will be anywhere between $35-$160 depending on which filter you go with.[/B]

Very nice write-up. Everyone can benefit from this.

As for the breathing of the car, why were these filters picked to help it breathe better? Were they proven to work beyond the stock air filter? Are there intakes out there that are made to help the car breathe better beyond just changing these filters? I thought there was at least one but the name of it escapes me.

[black beast]

I grabbed the info that chike had put done, and reduced it so that it all is closer together, I added tom's name cause Tom had some idea's in there and he seems to be going the more power route.
The filters however, K&N has been accepted as one of the better all around filters, be it their stock like drop in, or their cone filter. The green filter I have a feeling was added because dayle sold it, I had it for a while and I didnt notice any difference from the K&N that was removed for it. The STI filter has been tested by several people on the site (do a search, more then a year ago) and they proved it was giving more power.
I have switched now to the HKS foam and as the foam is replacible (You cant clean it) I switch it at every oil change. That has been the best one I have had yet. (filter costs $15-$25 depending on which one you want)

Tom- I disagree, yes this is not NEW information, it is not however superseded and outdated. Not everyone is at the level you are. This is the basic stuff that makes gets you to the next level. If everyone who wants a faster car has done all this stuff, Sorry! my fault! I know thou that I have not, and ridered has not, so until everyone is done with the basics, it is not outdated. I want you to add to it. I think you are a really bright guy, so add to this, and replace what you think is crap.

-Black Beast

[TomsSVX]

you misunderstood what I meant. I meant to say that a lot of the information we had then has since changed and support has changed. Ex: thinking picking up 4whp from a stage 2 was moving up in the world

Tom

[black beast]

O, ok. Thought you meant this was not a good staring place.. sorry.

[longassname]

First let me say I am sorry I have to make this post. I would have thought others would have more gently put an end to this nonesense rather than leaving it to me to defend myself.

There are a handful of people on the forum who have come to specialize in trying to bring me grief and would like to create a sense that everything I have ever done is worthless; I don't, however, think that the statements of these few vocal members accurately portray the general sense of the SVX community.

This idea that there is 65 hp to be gained from switching to standalone engine management is absurd. Neither my tunes nore the engineers at Subaru and JECS are that "laughable." Yes, if you put an EG33 in another chasis with far less drive line loss you will see higher wheel hp numbers. That goes without saying and has nothing to do with the engine management.

Standalone engine management for the EG33 has been available for years. If anybody wants it call pantera. People don't because stage 2 works well for them.

I still give good service as well. The camshafts which I developed are proving to work very well--providing a wide power band, torque peak above 6000 rpms, and still idling well at a very respectable 800 rpms. Are they best used with new software with an adjusted idle? Yes Did Tom go out of his way to get the camshafts before I did? Yes How can someone claim I am giving bad service because I didn't come up with updated software to smooth the idle with the camshafts before I've had the opportunity to run them myself and write the software. The whole development of the camshafts was well documented in the camshaft thread and he knew he was getting them ahead of me and went out of his way to do so. The same applies with the rest of the components he used in his engine build and the supercharger system.

When complaining about his engine management pulling ignition timing Tom doesn't mention things like his engine has rod knock which causes ignition timing to be pulled like no other. He doesn't mention things like he actually broke arp2000 rod bolts when building his engine. He doesn't mention things like the comments he made about how the piston rings fit before filing indicate that the piston fitment in his engine is terrible.

Tom may be great at dissassembling and reassembling an SVX and have lots of SVX specific knowledge but he does not know how to build an engine or tune an engine management system and I'm not going to make any appologies for relying on my own analytical processes instead of his opinion. I understand that he hoped he could be the first to throw an engine together and make huge power numbers but to throw a hissy fit because that didn't work out is uncalled for.

The engine components I have developed are proving extremely effective. The transmission build I came up with has proven very effective. Soon I will have tcu software and new engine management software to pull these two things together and then we will have very fast NA SVXii. It annoys me to no end to hear a negative nancy trying to pull things apart when we are so close to pulling them together.

[TomsSVX]

for the record I have taken this to PM's. If Mike wants to keep it here he can but I will not.

Tom

[Dessertrunner]

Guys we need you both so take it out of the public forum.
Tony