Building a 10,000 rpm NA engine.

[bazza]

Originally Posted by icingdeath88

But there is a lot of the preliminary work done for you guys.

That thread contains nothing of value to be honest. Search for "WRX stroker" or NASIOC, REXNET, 22B, etc and you'll see what's going on in the real world. People have been stroking the EJ engine for 20 years - huge amount of resources, build pics and results. Luckily for us the EG33 is built on the EJ22 design so we save 20 years of R&D already done for us as the WRX boys have already spent enough coin doing so. A year or two ago I got to tune and drive a 2.35L EJ with a GT30 and it was NUTS, just slammed through the limiter! A 3.5L or 3.75L would be madness with a suitable turbo.


Here's the good stuff:
Jack's EG33 ran 100 mm pistons (aka EJ25 pistons) and we know how awesome that was - I think there is a built thread on here isn't there? Also on NASIOC.
That EG33 in the UK runs a 3.75L setup based on the EJ25 bore and stroke .. it runs 8 second quarter miles, build info on 22B forum.

Tony, would you believe some people stroke the EJ25 out to 2.7L!! Crazy talk.

[icingdeath88]

Wouldn't increasing the stroke work against the quest for higher revs?

[Dessertrunner]

Originally Posted by icingdeath88

Wouldn't increasing the stroke work against the quest for higher revs?

I think thats correct, we also don't know if our current cranks would have any issues yet. Seem to remember Rally Bob tell us some guy broke his crank. Can't remember the detail. Bob if your out there please jump in.
Tony

[oab_au]

Originally Posted by bazza

These a lot of waffling about a computer simulation but I can't see anything about the build actually happening? Did it ever get off the ground?

A lot of technical stuff that you didn't understand. Hey?

Ron finished stroking the crank for 3.7lt.

Harvey.

[oab_au]

Originally Posted by Dessertrunner

I think thats correct, we also don't know if our current cranks would have any issues yet. Seem to remember Rally Bob tell us some guy broke his crank. Can't remember the detail. Bob if your out there please jump in.
Tony

Tony crankshaft breaking is mainly from harmonic fatigue, sure some will fail from sheer torque, but harmonic waves will end up attacking one part of the crank till it fatigues, and breaks.

The large range of critical frequencies, that your crank will go through over a rev range of 0 to 10,000 rpm, will make it hard to find a clear spot, that a suitable harmonic balancer will handle. Spend too much time at the wrong frequency, and it will break.

Harvey.

[icingdeath88]

Originally Posted by oab_au

Ron finished stroking the crank for 3.7lt.

Did he ever get it into an engine or the engine into a car? I was really interested in that project (was going to join in, but decided against it). Do you (or anyone else) have a way to get in touch with him to have him come talk about it?

[oab_au]

Originally Posted by icingdeath88

Did he ever get it into an engine or the engine into a car? I was really interested in that project (was going to join in, but decided against it). Do you (or anyone else) have a way to get in touch with him to have him come talk about it?

Well if you know Ron, he has a few projects going, so time to do the work, that he does himself, is his problem. The crank was welded and stroked, a lot of work to straighten the shaft, but it is done with all the other bits, rods, pistons ready.

Harvey.

[bazza]

Originally Posted by icingdeath88

Wouldn't increasing the stroke work against the quest for higher revs?

It does but you need to increase by a lot more than 4mm to see the high rpm ability becoming a real issue.

However with Tony's 10,000 rpm engine I would stick to the 75mm setup initially and maybe look at the 79mm setup later. Nobody has pushed an EG33 to 10,000 rpm so there are a lot of unknowns that Tony's going to have to deal with.

Originally Posted by Dessertrunner

I think thats correct, we also don't know if our current cranks would have any issues yet. Seem to remember Rally Bob tell us some guy broke his crank. Can't remember the detail. Bob if your out there please jump in.
Tony

As I said when we had a chat on the phone, given Rigoli's, AFP and that other one in the UK pushing a lot of power with the stock and high rpm and massive torque I don't think we'll be breaking the stock crank anytime soon. Of course yours at 10,000 rpm is a different story - that rpm and our crank is a new world. Also bare in mind that Bob's mate may have spun a bearing, bending the crank and breaking it which is a bit different of course.

LOL if it broke with only NA power that's just embarrassing for us as EG33 owners however I extremely doubt that is the case and it broke due to something else.

Originally Posted by oab_au

A lot of technical stuff that you didn't understand. Hey?

Ron finished stroking the crank for 3.7lt.

Harvey.

No it's simply because there is a lot of discussion but no action. My greatest concern is you're telling people what the new power and torque figures will be - yet you've never calibrated your simulator with your own real world results to ensure the data out is not garbage. Send me the EG33 file if you like and I will calibrate it when we test Tony's engines to ensure it's actually giving decent output.

Now, you shouldn't resort to immature responses when losing an argument - it just makes you look like a fool.

[dynomatt]

If there was a quality billet 79mm stroked EG33 crank using the 52mm journals...I'd be interested.

M

[RallyBob]

It was Frank Aragona who had crank issues. He told me and Jack that the standard crankshaft was dead reliable until 9000 rpms. After 9500 he had breakage issues. He had a billet crank made, and spun his engine to 10,500 after that. Bear in mind he was drag racing only...no turns or heavy braking to deal with in terms of oil control.

[icingdeath88]

Originally Posted by RallyBob

It was Frank Aragona who had crank issues. He told me and Jack that the standard crankshaft was dead reliable until 9000 rpms. After 9500 he had breakage issues. He had a billet crank made, and spun his engine to 10,500 after that. Bear in mind he was drag racing only...no turns or heavy braking to deal with in terms of oil control.

Do you know if that was the guy that Arias made the billet crank for?

[RallyBob]

Originally Posted by icingdeath88

Do you know if that was the guy that Arias made the billet crank for?

I don't know for sure. Frank was surprisingly open about some specs, and tight lipped about others. I know Web did his camshafts with "about" .550" lift, and TD machine did a bunch of the valve train parts. Remember he did this build 15 years ago or so.

[icingdeath88]

15 years ago? Probably not then. Thanks for the input.

[Dessertrunner]

I undertstand Harvey's point about the harmonics of the crank but its also effect by load, as I recall that engine was developing around 1,100 hp.

Anyway the only way to prove if the crank can handle it or not is to run a engine to that revs.

A question does the rev limiter on the SVX work, does it pull fuel or what?

Tony

[oab_au]

Originally Posted by Dessertrunner

I undertstand Harvey's point about the harmonics of the crank but its also effect by load, as I recall that engine was developing around 1,100 hp.
Anyway the only way to prove if the crank can handle it or not is to run a engine to that revs.

A question does the rev limiter on the SVX work, does it pull fuel or what?

Tony

Yes, but who's engine are we building this engine for.

Your engine won't have that sort of HP. The crank will be affected more by the rpm that you want to run. The torque that the NA engine will develop, won't load the crank that much. The crank has handled the torque that using a blower or Nitrous has subjected it to in the past.

The rpm limiter cuts fuel.

Harvey.