Help me out with my intake mod, PLS??

SilverSpear · #1 03-21-2005, 02:34 AM

Guys i am trying to redo my intake system. I need few ideas about possible mods that can be done. Especially the piping to the intake manifold. I havebeen searching for previous mods done before with no luck. I swear that i saw someone who already did it on this furum (he did something like metal piping connected to the manifold), can anybody help me out with some pics?

svxfiles · #2 03-21-2005, 08:00 AM

Danny, I've had a few different intake/ram air systems on my car. The one that was the coolest, (in terms of degrees) as verified by a remote temp sensor was as follows.
I used the stock air box attached to the throttle body. It is well designed, non restrictive, and plastic, making it both light weight and more insulated than a metal tube, hung across a hot engine.
I mounted the MAF directley to the inner fender at the opening for the stock air filter/air box.
To connect the TB airbox to the MAF mounted on the inner fender, you can use a rubber 3" ID hose from these guys.

https://shell7.tdl.com/~jags/Pages/P...n_Ducting.html
With the MAF (farther from the engine heat) now open to the inner fender, you can install a cone type filter in the inner fender and the engine gets cooler air. You do not have to cut any holes in the inner fender as they are not sealed. I had that system for a year or so and was happy with it. Tom.

lhopp77 · #3 03-21-2005, 08:50 AM

I still want to see one of you "modifiers" come up with a functional scoop that feeds the intake system.

Lee

svxfiles · #4 03-21-2005, 09:28 AM

I had two.

The first one I installed on my car before I even drove it home from the dealership. After the stock airbox/air filter, it had PVP tubing going thru the inner fender to the lower intake grill in our front bumper. And used the lower half on the pass side for the intake scoop.
The second one had the stock air filter/air box in place as well. The stock tube going down out of it in the normal position. and a simple 90 degree bend 3" ID rubber elbow poking thru the bottom of the inner fender facing forward. with a 3" tube out of it as a ram air tube. I even tried a tapered funnel about 6" wide, and 4" tall going into that elbow. It looked like crap and made no differance at the dragstrip, that day, so I pitched it.

Note;
I did not mean to imply that it did not work, just that the funnel made no differance compared to the strait 3" tube

SilverSpear · #5 03-22-2005, 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by svxfiles

Danny, I've had a few different intake/ram air systems on my car. The one that was the coolest, (in terms of degrees) as verified by a remote temp sensor was as follows.
I used the stock air box attached to the throttle body. It is well designed, non restrictive, and plastic, making it both light weight and more insulated than a metal tube, hung across a hot engine.
I mounted the MAF directley to the inner fender at the opening for the stock air filter/air box.
To connect the TB airbox to the MAF mounted on the inner fender, you can use a rubber 3" ID hose from these guys.

https://shell7.tdl.com/~jags/Pages/P...n_Ducting.html
With the MAF (farther from the engine heat) now open to the inner fender, you can install a cone type filter in the inner fender and the engine gets cooler air. You do not have to cut any holes in the inner fender as they are not sealed. I had that system for a year or so and was happy with it. Tom.

Files thank you for that functional idea, but i am having other thoughts in mind. I already have a K&N in my car's front fender, but what i am looking for is a way to keep the air coming to the engine as cool as possible.
As you know, if you put a piece of aluminum in the fridge, you take it out after a while, put your finger on it and it gets stuck because of the icy thing on it.... and if you heat it up it will have the reverse effect...on the other hand, if you put a piece of rubber, it only gets cold on the outside and insulates the inside from it...
So i am planning to make the whole intake system from aluminum instead of rubber, i want it to get colder with more air it gets to it... but you will tell me what about the engine heat? the answer is very simple: get insulating material used in burners for radiator use, cover it all around the piping and finally all of the stuff with rubber tape. I know it will not be that attractive scene, but I will sure get the efficient kick out of it

I dunno if you understood my idea, i will realize it, it won't take all that hard work with me... any more comments?

elvis · #6 03-22-2005, 08:11 AM

Maybe I am missing something?!?!

So you want to take a matrial with naturally good insulating properties (rubber), replace it with a material with poor insulating properties (aluminum), and then wrap it with another good insulator.

Um, why?

CigarJohnny · #7 03-22-2005, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by svxfiles

Danny, I've had a few different intake/ram air systems on my car. The one that was the coolest, (in terms of degrees) as verified by a remote temp sensor was as follows.
I used the stock air box attached to the throttle body. It is well designed, non restrictive, and plastic, making it both light weight and more insulated than a metal tube, hung across a hot engine.
I mounted the MAF directley to the inner fender at the opening for the stock air filter/air box.
To connect the TB airbox to the MAF mounted on the inner fender, you can use a rubber 3" ID hose from these guys.

https://shell7.tdl.com/~jags/Pages/P...n_Ducting.html
With the MAF (farther from the engine heat) now open to the inner fender, you can install a cone type filter in the inner fender and the engine gets cooler air. You do not have to cut any holes in the inner fender as they are not sealed. I had that system for a year or so and was happy with it. Tom.

Tom, I love this idea. Do you have any pics of how you attached the cone filter to the MAF? I would imagine it would just bolt to the MAF like it normally would but with the fender liner as a "gasket" between the two. I've never had my fender liner out. Is there really enough room for a standard cone filter to sit in there? How well protected from the wet is it?

Johnny

Earthworm · #8 03-22-2005, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilverSpear

As you know, if you put a piece of aluminum in the fridge, you take it out after a while, put your finger on it and it gets stuck because of the icy thing on it....

I prefer to use my tongue

Funny Reference Link

svxfiles · #9 03-22-2005, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CigarJohnny

Tom, I love this idea. Do you have any pics of how you attached the cone filter to the MAF? I would imagine it would just bolt to the MAF like it normally would but with the fender liner as a "gasket" between the two. I've never had my fender liner out. Is there really enough room for a standard cone filter to sit in there? How well protected from the wet is it?

Johnny

Hi, Johnny. The tube from the air resonator is 3" OD, has a 90 degree bend pointing it strait down. The filter I used for a long time was 5.5" wide and 7.75" long including the collar that slips over the tube.
Unless the bottom of the fender is under 6" of water it's not a problem.

SilverSpear · #10 03-23-2005, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elvis

Maybe I am missing something?!?!

So you want to take a matrial with naturally good insulating properties (rubber), replace it with a material with poor insulating properties (aluminum), and then wrap it with another good insulator.

Um, why?

aluminum gets colder with cool air, more than rubber..

elvis · #11 03-23-2005, 05:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilverSpear

aluminum gets colder with cool air, more than rubber..

From high school physics...

Right, because it is a) a poor insulator, and b) a good conductor. So if you have something inside an aluminum tube (like air) you get more heat transfer to and from it (depending on wheter the stuff is hotter or the ambient air is hotter).

If your tube is in a cold place the stuff in the tube gets colder because the heat can easily convect from the stuff to the tube and then to the surrounding air. Conversely if your tube is in a hot place (like an engine bay) heat from the engine will transfer to the stuff in the tube.

Wrapping the tube in an insulator is exactly the same as using a material like rubber that is a bad conductor. The heat can't get in or out.

In your idea the heat from the air would transfer to the aluminum tube, not get into the engine bay (which is hotter anyway so the heat would never go that way) because of the insulator and then transfer back into the charge-air.

You could of course do what you are planning and then devise some kind of heat transfer mechanism that would be attached only to the metal liner of the tube. Maybe run some cold water tubes through the insulator and create a water jacket around the intake charge. It would be really easy...all you need is a pump, some tubes, a place to keep the water, and a way to cool the water. Maybe you could use fiberglass?!?!

SilverSpear · #12 03-23-2005, 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elvis

You could of course do what you are planning and then devise some kind of heat transfer mechanism that would be attached only to the metal liner of the tube. Maybe run some cold water tubes through the insulator and create a water jacket around the intake charge. It would be really easy...all you need is a pump, some tubes, a place to keep the water, and a way to cool the water. Maybe you could use fiberglass?!?!

What about a small computer-like fan in between the system???....

CigarJohnny · #13 03-23-2005, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilverSpear

aluminum gets colder with cool air, more than rubber..

But isn't that because it's pulling the cold from the air, just like it pulls the cold from a freezer? Seems to me that the aluminum won't get any colder than the ambient air. Add hot external air to the mix, even insulated from the aluminum piping, and you are making it even tougher to keep the air cool. Think about it. The reason your finger freezes to a frozen aluminum plate is that it is sucking the warmth out of your skin, causing it to bond to the aluminum. Your finger won't stick to a piece of rubber at the same temp because the rubber does not suck the warmth from your skin, hence it does not stick to it. Slap your tongue to a railroad track in the dead of winter and it will stick to it like white on rice. Why? Because metal is a lousy insulator. Aluminum is worse than most metals. Why do you think heat sinks are made from aluminum? Thermal transfer works both ways. It draws cold as easily as it draws heat. You will not make the intake air any colder than it already is by running it through an aluminum pipe. You will only make it worse. Think about it.

Johnny

SilverSpear · #14 03-24-2005, 12:01 AM

What i meant Johnny is that aluminum gets colder more than other materials. Why you think radiators are made of aluminum? because it is the best cooler for the engine... as for the insulator, i am planning to use amiante and then wrap everything up with a rubber tape.

PS: i think amiante is used as an insulator in our exhaust covers...

Phast SVX · #15 03-24-2005, 12:31 AM

Actually, gold and copper are both better heat conductors...

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilverSpear

What i meant Johnny is that aluminum gets colder more than other materials. Why you think radiators are made of aluminum? because it is the best cooler for the engine... as for the insulator, i am planning to use amiante and then wrap everything up with a rubber tape.

PS: i think amiante is used as an insulator in our exhaust covers...