which is quicker 4.11/4.44?

[sicksubie]

I really don't know trannies that well. From those SVX'ers that have done conversions I want to hear the good the bad and the ugly. Also which is better 4.11 or 4.44? I will hopefully be doing a lot of work over christmas break on my SVX. A tranny swap is one of the things that I was planning on doing

[SVXRide]

Everything else being equal, the 4:44 will accelerate faster - which should result in a faster 1/4 mile time (guess we'll see this weekend - right Tom/Chike?).
-Bill

[NeedForSpeed]

I think Chike was closest to the truth. Both 4.11 and 4.44 gears have the same third and forth gear. So, the 4.44 with its lower first and second gears may get a better start, but the 4.44 is handicapped by a bigger spread between second and the 1:1 third gear.

The 4.11 has the same gear ratios as the stock box, just with a 4.11 to multiply each gear instead of the stock 3.45. In the end, equal power, both probably run very close to the same time in a quarter.

The place to check the difference in the effect of the better multiples offered by the 4.44 is at the 1/8 mile mark.

Originally Posted by SVXRide

Everything else being equal, the 4:44 will accelerate faster - which should result in a faster 1/4 mile time (guess we'll see this weekend - right Tom/Chike?).
-Bill

[Chiketkd]

Originally Posted by NeedForSpeed

I think Chike was closest to the truth. Both 4.11 and 4.44 gears have the same third and forth gear. So, the 4.44 with its lower first and second gears may get a better start, but the 4.44 is handicapped by a bigger spread between second and the 1:1 third gear.

The 4.11 has the same gear ratios as the stock box, just with a 4.11 to multiply each gear instead of the stock 3.45. In the end, equal power, both probably run very close to the same time in a quarter.

The place to check the difference in the effect of the better multiples offered by the 4.44 is at the 1/8 mile mark.

Ron,

after having both 4.11's and 4.44's on my car, I'd say this:

4.44's are going to shoot you off the line (like a bat-out-o'-hell) and the car will scream through the first two gears in next to no time. Once the shift into third occurs, my 4.44 svx doesn't feel like it's pulling any harder than my 4.11's did in that same gear (probably due to the larger spread between the 2nd and 3rd gear ratios).

I'd probably estimate that 4.44's are between .1-.2 seconds faster than 4.11's in the 1/4 mile (due to the shorter 1st wo gears).

I'd also say that 4.11's are probably .1-.2 faster than the stock 3.55 gears.

Therefore, someone like Bwana who ran 15.37 @ 89 in his lightly modded stock geared SVX, would probably run a 15.0 like I did if he switched to 4.44's (and maybe a 15.2 if he switched to 4.11's).

Just my $0.02...

-Chike

P.S. The gain from switching to 4.11's and 4.44's could be greater but I haven't had the opportunity to race my SVX in similar 40* temps like Bwana did. A 4.11 geared lightly-modded SVX could possibly run a 15.0 in the 1/4 in perfect conditions, and a 4.44 geared SVX could be in the 14.8 range in cooler temps.

[Matthewmongan]

may i add that my car does a 4 wheel burn out with 4.44's.......yes it was a little rainy but still. thats some good mojo right there.

[NikFu S.]

Originally Posted by Matthewmongan

thats some good mojo right there.

Yeeaahhh baby, yeah.

[Chiketkd]

Originally posted by sicksubie
I really don't know trannies that well. From those SVX'ers that have done conversions I want to hear the good the bad and the ugly. Also which is better 4.11 or 4.44? I will hopefully be doing a lot of work over christmas break on my SVX. A tranny swap is one of the things that I was planning on doing

Which is better? That really depends on what you want.

Driving like a raped ape on the highway (90-110mph), Svxfiles gets about 19.5mpg in his 4.44 geared SVX. During similar driving when I was coming back from Richmond behind AmazonParrot, I got 23.5mpg in my 4.11 geared SVX (in regular 75-80mph highway cruising I get 25mpg, around town 21-22mpg).

4.44s are the best gears to get if your want to race your SVX heavily. However, I feel 4.11s offer the perfect trade-off between increased performance and everyday liveability. Just think on a stock car with 4.11 gears, I went 15.3 in the 1/4 mile. Road & Track got a 15.2 for a 4spd auto WRX wagon - which is not bad company to be in...

Originally posted by SVXRide
Everything else being equal, the 4:44 will accelerate faster - which should result in a faster 1/4 mile time (guess we'll see this weekend - right Tom/Chike?).
-Bill

We shall definitely see. Based on his g-tech testing, Tom should win by a lot, but I'll make sure my car gives a good show out there... Either way, by the end of the day, I can almost guarantee that the first 14sec SVX pass in an awd model w/ a 4EAT will happen!

-Chike

[svxfiles]

Driving like a raped ape on the highway (90-110mph), Svxfiles gets about 19.5mpg in his 4.44 geared SVX.

Sir, I most heartily dissagree. It was 85-105, and we actually got 21.9 mpg.

Closed course, professional driver, do not try this at home boys and girls.

[Motorsport-SVX]

Originally Posted by svxfiles

Driving like a raped ape on the highway (90-110mph), Svxfiles gets about 19.5mpg in his 4.44 geared SVX.

Sir, I most heartily dissagree. It was 85-105, and we actually got 21.9 mpg.

Closed course, professional driver, do not try this at home boys and girls.

Tom, its Dayle in Tucson
if you get a chance, can you email me ?

dayle@motorsportwarehouse.com

thanks
me

[Chiketkd]

Originally posted by svxfiles
Sir, I most heartily dissagree. It was 85-105, and we actually got 21.9 mpg.

Closed course, professional driver, do not try this at home boys and girls.

My bad. Do you get 19.5 mpg around town then?

Ahem - definitely on a closed course with a professional driver!

-Chike

[svxfiles]

Normal driving, short eight mile commutes, with a four mile highway run, with a 4.44 gearset, 3000 rpm gives a true 75 mph. On normal city driving, it shifts out of first too fast, just like it did with the 3.545s.
With a 4.11, all of the ratios are 16% off the stock transmission, 16% more rpm, and torque in every gear.
With a 4.44, its 36% more in first, 31% more in second, and 25% more in third and fourth.
Evan before I swaped to an (Legacy) Outback transmission, my gas milage was five mpg less than Green_Eyed_Lady, same gas, both 92 SVX LS-Ls, similar commutes, different driving styles.
If things go well Saturday, we will all learn something.

I was very recently suprised that my two inch shorter tires (205/40/16s) gave a slightly slower speed in my G-tech 1/4 mile runs, compared to my 225/45/17s. The only explanation that I can figure is that the 17s weighed 3.5 lbs per wheel LESS than the stoch 20 lb wheels. The tires weighed the same. Tom

[NeedForSpeed]

In a conversation with SVXfiles, I mentioned that I believed he would have a better run with stock diameter tires and 4.44 gears. I thought the smaller diameter tires [even lower effective gear] were running the engine past its power peak at the end of the quarter mile, and in effect, just hanging on for the end of the run.

Originally Posted by svxfiles

I was very recently suprised that my two inch shorter tires (205/40/16s) gave a slightly slower speed in my G-tech 1/4 mile runs, compared to my 225/45/17s. The only explanation that I can figure is that the 17s weighed 3.5 lbs per wheel LESS than the stoch 20 lb wheels. The tires weighed the same. Tom

[svxfiles]

Usually 18 mpg around town, it was 16.6 mpg when I had the tps adjusted to .56 volts. Now, after testing .5 volts seems to work best.

[Chiketkd]

Tom,

after you adjusted my tps last Saturday, I checked my fuel economy on the rive back home. I got 25.21 mpg driving between 75-80mph on the interstate.

-Chike

[Myxalplyx]

Originally posted by svxfiles
I was very recently suprised that my two inch shorter tires (205/40/16s) gave a slightly slower speed in my G-tech 1/4 mile runs, compared to my 225/45/17s. The only explanation that I can figure is that the 17s weighed 3.5 lbs per wheel. Tom

Hi Tom,

I just wanted to be clear on a couple of things. When putting up your tire sizes on the miata tire calculator site (http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html), the 17s had 808.0 revs per mile while the 16's had 898.0 revs per mile. That's a huge difference. Are you sure the weather temperature and everything was pretty much the same?

Also, the 17s weighed 3.5lbs per wheel? Do you mean the 17's weighed 3.5lbs per wheel lighter than the 16s or just that the 17s weighed only 3.5lbs each? If you are saying they weigh only 3.5lbs a piece, that's .....that's......well...I'm speechless. I'm sure I'm reading into it wrong though.