SVX Engine cooling "Again & Again"

[Dessertrunner]

Originally Posted by bazza

I reckon give it a go. Personally I wouldn't as it's complicated and I think the sole issue remains, that being a huge pump, far too big for the purpose of cooling the EG33.



That is some epic reading - certainly very in depth.





Not sure what pump he was trying to use but the new Davies Craig 150L/min runs at 185W max. So far has proven good enough to cool 1000 bhp but we'll how it goes on the track. I reckon, worst case is he'll simply have to increase the size of the radiator and ensure adequate flow.

http://www.daviescraig.com.au/Images...ecs%202009.pdf

The Davies Craig as I mentioned is only 185W flat out. You said Steve's was 3/4 hp or 500W.

P=VI or P/V=I
500W / 12V = 41A

Stock alternator will handle that and if not the newer alternators are rated at well over 100A.

Not sure about Steve's impeller but if there's a will, there's a way, probably best to start with a brand new unit as the older ones tend to be brittle. I was once told I couldn't TIG weld up a cast turbo exhaust housing... took a while but got there.

However I think if the pump is the issue then get rid of it. I'm starting to think the bigger inlet, pressure valves, bigger radiators, cross flow radiators, better flow, special coolant, different caps are all band-aid fixes and the major issue remains - the pump is simply too big. So from my point of view for both my street SVX and EG33 race motor, it's simple... gut it and use something far more suitable - ie electric water pump or a smaller mechanical pump - although you really want to reduce complexity so either have to be really well thought out. A major thing you'd want is safety as EWP have less life - so for my setup I'd simply have the engine shut down above 110'C.

You miss quoted me again as usual.
I said we being Steve Jones and I tried to figure out how to drill the impeller on a existing SVX pump.
The 3/4 Hp was in the thesis not Davis Craig.

Get your fact straight before you fly into people.

[bazza]

Originally Posted by Dessertrunner

You miss quoted me again as usual.
I said we being Steve Jones and I tried to figure out how to drill the impeller on a existing SVX pump.
The 3/4 Hp was in the thesis not Davis Craig.

Get your fact straight before you fly into people.

Yes I understand that you weren't able to make it work but simply because you cannot, doesn't mean it cannot be done by someone else with other ideas, certainly not worth ditching the idea completely.

The pump in the thesis was simply there to provide a flow rate / pressure with an AC powered water pump - why, because it's easy to setup, same as when I used my spa pump to test flows. The pump in the thesis was 1 hp (750W), say 110V, that's still only 7 amps, my bloody AC/DC inverter would run that!

[Dessertrunner]

Originally Posted by bazza

Now back to the original problem - a mate of mine has his brand new EG33/GT40R setup in his WRX making over 550 bhp. He sat his car on the dyno for 5 mins and held it at 6000 rpm. The annoying thing is he didn't find a single issue - no cavitation, no overheating, no airpockets. Standard thermostat cover and inlet.

Further my own SVX has been flogged about and I handed the keys to the current NSW Rally State Champ (mate of mine) and he flogged it and was living on the limiter for minutes - again not a single issue... it he did it multiple times.. think he enjoyed my SVX with plated rear diff lol.

Of course, I never actually had any cavitation issues with my EG33... I simply upgraded the thermostat cover before any testing which is rather annoying for me as it means I've never actually got to see this issue.

I will no longer be posting or looking at the forum because people like Bazza bust my ball with statements like this then later when the statement is proven wrong and on based on wrong info he tells me I am wrong and should not post anything.
Bazza is incapable of admitting that he was wrong, not a chance because his got all the answers.

I will no longer be posting or even opening this forum, Bazza should have been kicked off when he flamed Harvey last year.

[oab_au]

^^^
+1.

Harvey.

[bazza]

Originally Posted by Dessertrunner

I will no longer be posting or looking at the forum because people like Bazza bust my ball with statements like this then later when the statement is proven wrong and on based on wrong info he tells me I am wrong and should not post anything.
Bazza is incapable of admitting that he was wrong, not a chance because his got all the answers.

I will no longer be posting or even opening this forum, Bazza should have been kicked off when he flamed Harvey last year.

If you read my post properly it never says you are wrong. It simply says I've never actually seen the cavitation myself. Most people understand to solve an issue you need to experience it first hand.

My mate with his now 1000 bhp EG33 finally found the cavitation issue as I've already said and he went to an electric water pump to solve it.

Now above I've simply said that if the electric pump is 500W then it will be 41A.... you asked what alternator would run it and pretty much any modern Subaru one will. I actually checked and found that my last race setup with electric water pump and 2 x 16" Davies Craig thermo's were sucking 40A - so i know it can be done first hand.

As for me being banned - why? Because I don't agree with most things you and Harvey say? That's the whole idea of an internet forum. I recall Harvey busting my balls over numerous things including the 272 cams and you busting my balls because I was using an AC 240V pump (like the guys in the thesis) to do my testing. Then every step of the way for my own testing you were busting my balls and coming up with excuses why my testing had different results to your own. Stop being a hypocrite.

[michael]

I will no longer be posting or looking at the forum because people like Bazza bust my ball with statements like this then later when the statement is proven wrong and on based on wrong info he tells me I am wrong and should not post anything.
Bazza is incapable of admitting that he was wrong, not a chance because his got all the answers.

I will no longer be posting or even opening this forum, Bazza should have been kicked off when he flamed Harvey last year.

Well that sucks! I really enjoyed seeing the progress you have made

[bazza]

Tapani sent me this today, very interesting, talks about the electric water pump and how to control it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sobfh...ature=youtu.be

This one also, very good: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrfux...ature=youtu.be

['E']

I can't understand what tony desertrunner is having a brain fart about

[Tireiron]

He got butt hurt by being contradicted too many times and argued with so he is handling it like a mature adult would on the internet...

It's the internet, you have to handle peoples thoughts and opinions with a grain of salt and cant take offense by them.

['E']

Originally Posted by Tireiron

He got butt hurt by being contradicted too many times and argued with so he is handling it like a mature adult would on the internet...

It's the internet, you have to handle peoples thoughts and opinions with a grain of salt and cant take offense by them.

You can't have ideas and not have them challenged

[Tapani]

Bazza, that's cool .... most of what Mr Craig says sound believable..... except removing the thermostat on a Subaru.....

Here's a vid showing how to replace the EWP and the thermostat on a late model beemer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-BpUzAemyQ

I'd like to point out (again ) that on these engines the delta T across the engine is designed to be low. That's why the thermostat controls the coolant inlet (into the engine) temperature and the flow rate is high enough to maintain a safety margin against local boiling and excess outlet (engine) coolant temperatures.

With an EWP and no thermostat you will introduce low temperature coolant from the rad outlet and if you control the EWP based on engine ext temp you will compromize the basics of the Subaru engineering built on low delta T, controlling engine inlet temp, by pass flow passages, relatively high flow rate and flimsy radiator dimensions.

You may be fine in a race car - just play around with radiator area to balance the system. For a daily driver all this is very different, especially here up north .

Tapani

[icingdeath88]

Originally Posted by 'E'

You can't have ideas and not have them challenged

Yea but there is a respectful way of challenging someone. But I think what got to him was the constant challenging of his ideas, almost nitpicking even, where he had to spend a lot of time defending his ideas and not a lot of time making progress. I can see how that might get frustrating. People like to play "gotcha" too, when someone makes a little mistake, and that can get annoying real fast.

But Tony's following rule #1 of internet forums: If it stops being fun, stop going there.

The flip side is that if you want people to stick around and talk to you, you have to make sure they're enjoying the conversation as much as you are. Text doesn't always convey tone/emotions very well, so you should always try to keep your side of the conversation nice and clear, so it can't be taken the wrong way. It's how people act toward strangers in real life, so it should be how you act with strangers on the internet.

Tony has a blog somewhere, right? I hope he starts/keeps posting his projects there. Because we are definitely worse off for his having left.

[bazza]

Originally Posted by Tapani

Bazza, that's cool .... most of what Mr Craig says sound believable..... except removing the thermostat on a Subaru.....

Here's a vid showing how to replace the EWP and the thermostat on a late model beemer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-BpUzAemyQ

I'd like to point out (again ) that on these engines the delta T across the engine is designed to be low. That's why the thermostat controls the coolant inlet (into the engine) temperature and the flow rate is high enough to maintain a safety margin against local boiling and excess outlet (engine) coolant temperatures.

With an EWP and no thermostat you will introduce low temperature coolant from the rad outlet and if you control the EWP based on engine ext temp you will compromize the basics of the Subaru engineering built on low delta T, controlling engine inlet temp, by pass flow passages, relatively high flow rate and flimsy radiator dimensions.

You may be fine in a race car - just play around with radiator area to balance the system. For a daily driver all this is very different, especially here up north .

Tapani

It's an interesting one for sure. I'd like to see the results of fluctating pump flow rate to simulate the job of a thermostat and ensure the engine exit temps are constant.

[Tapani]

What if the stock water pump pulley is replaced with an idler and the wp shaft then run by an external electric motor (thru the idler)?

We might opt to forget about the physical constraints (space, final arrangement etc) for now - just try to come up with as many ideas as possible how that could be demonstrated.

Another way to use the OEM pump is to redirect the belt around the pulley and start with this.

Concentrate on the "hows" and forget the "why nots" for a start .

Look at the photo and just kick around new ways of thinking !

Tapani

['E']

Someone may have already asked this but couldn't you change the size of the oem pump pulley to increase flow