Bontrager Works 22mm rear sway bar kit - Page 17

sunvalleyray · #**241** 10-12-2011, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevin

Ray, the problem was that the link itself came into contact (as far as I know anyway) with a fitting, and that it broke it and fluid came out.

Anyway, if you haven't had problems yet, I doubt you will, but if you could just get under there and see if you have plenty of clearance between the swaybar-endlink mounting bolts and the brake caliper, that'll let you know where we sit.

Nevin,

Just checked my end links (2002 Mazda Protege) and I do see how they could come into contact with the brake fittings but the car was not under any loads/stress. This upgrade completely solved the noise issue and my SVX handles great.

Ray

svxcess · #**242** 10-13-2011, 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunvalleyray

Nevin,

Just checked my end links (2002 Mazda Protege) and I do see how they could come into contact with the brake fittings but the car was not under any loads/stress. This upgrade completely solved the noise issue and my SVX handles great.

I am not sure how comfortable i would feel about having about having to choose between a quiet ride and the possibility of losing my brakes unexpectedly at any time when the car was under stress (spirited driving, tight turns, autocrossing, etc.)

And for those who haven't seen it, Here is a youtube video of ZMan's 94 SVX With the Bontrager sway bar installed and heim endlinks. He mounted a camera underneath the car and filmed it working at speed.

VIDEO

.

SVX92-97 · #**243** 10-13-2011, 09:52 AM

OT, I pmd you two days ago, need some answers

sunvalleyray · #**244** 10-13-2011, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by svxcess

I am not sure how comfortable i would feel about having about having to choose between a quiet ride and the possibility of losing my brakes unexpectedly at any time when the car was under stress (spirited driving, tight turns, autocrossing, etc.)

And for those who haven't seen it, Here is a youtube video of ZMan's 94 SVX With the Bontrager sway bar installed and heim endlinks. He mounted a camera underneath the car and filmed it working at speed.

VIDEO

.

Think I should clarify what I meant by "could come into contact with brake fittings"...after inspecting my Mazda end links last night, I concluded that it might be physically possible for the end links to hit the rubber brake line under extreme conditions but highly unlikely. What I failed to mention, the same would be true with the original end links - I do not see any difference in that possibility. Regardless of what end links you have I find it hard to believe that this could ever happen and even if it did, I don't see how it would cause brake failure - the lines are rubber and somewhat flexible. The fact that this was never a problem with the original end links supports that point. Sorry for not being clear, that was not my intention.

Ray

svxcess · #**245** 10-13-2011, 11:38 AM

Maybe stainless steel lines offer more protection. Aging rubber brake lines may be more susceptible. Would worn rear struts add to the possibility?

I think OT ought to comment here with more information on the failure. Seems like the mounting bolts were a different size, not sure. I thought he said that the top bolt on the anti-sway bar link on the passenger side had contacted the banjo bolt to the caliper, causing a brake fluid loss.

.

huck369 · #**246** 10-13-2011, 12:36 PM

Maybe over bend the sway bar some more to move it more toward the center of the car (away from the caliper)

subarusvx1992 · #**247** 10-13-2011, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevin

Sorry to take forever responding to you folks here. i haven't checked the boards in a while, and for some reason I wasn't getting emails from the network when people replied to the thread! I apologize very much for my truancy!

So, that out of the way...

There IS a possible solution, and it involves using an OEM mazda rear endlink. HOWEVER, just in the last few days, OT ran into some big problems with those and until I can figure out what went wrong, i will not be giving that part number out to anyone. What happened involved an endlink coming into contact with a brake fitting and an immedate loss of brakes.

The benefits of the heim joint link are: incredible strength, good movement capabilities, and ease of installation.

The most obvious effect of one of these is, however, the noise they can create. I've been telling people to keep them lubed and it does help a ton, but I know it's not the most convenient thing to crawl under your car and oil them .

Now, on the most recent bar i sold (which belongs to 92svx) I sent him an experimental set of endlinks. I'm waiting for his review to see if the same noise problem comes up, and if not I'm going to send a few more out to current owners and see if we have a winner. They are still a heimjoint style, but have a tefton skirt on the end to help keep crap out. I would love to try to find one that has grease zerks in the end, but so far I haven't found anything.

However, if that doesn't work I still have a few things left to try. I just want to cross off one thing at a time here.

The bar really does enhance the car's handling in a way that I thought a simple part would not do, but dang if the rattle in the back doesn't get old...

So please, rest assured that I AM trying to find a solution (in between work, life, etc...) and that yes, a new batch of abrs will be available soon. I know I said that earlier this summer, but... WOW I had quite a summer. Now that things have calmed down susbstantially, I can get back to work on these things.

p.s. icingdeath, I still haven't received your old links back. Maybe I didn't communicate clearly, but I did need them back so I could send them to the manufacturer. I have a place make these specifically for this car, so when I told them that yours were acting up, they said they'd like to look at them to see if they can improve the design, and figure out what went wrong. Email me back if you like. nevinbontrager@gmail.com

I am not sure if this is the case for anyone else, but for me, once the heim joints are lubed they are whisper quiet. However, once the lubrication is dry the joints begin to rattle. To combat this, I have been researching these:

http://www.sealsit.com/rodendboots.asp

I am in contact with the company and will hopefully be ordering a set of the 14mm boots tomorrow. Once these boots are packed with grease I am hoping that the endlinks will be acceptably quiet and still allow us to maintain the excellent performance of the heim joints.

sunvalleyray · #**248** 10-13-2011, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by svxcess

Maybe stainless steel lines offer more protection. Aging rubber brake lines may be more susceptible. Would worn rear struts add to the possibility?

I think OT ought to comment here with more information on the failure. Seems like the mounting bolts were a different size, not sure. I thought he said that the top bolt on the anti-sway bar link on the passenger side had contacted the banjo bolt to the caliper, causing a brake fluid loss.

.

Good suggestion regarding the SS brake lines, think with the age of our cars all rubber parts are of suspect. I also agree that it would be beneficial to hear from OT regarding what he knows about this potential brake problem/failure. I have been communicating with him privately so he knows the end links I used.

Regarding the top bolt contacting the bolt on the caliper...I cannot see how that could happen with the mazda end links. There is approximately the same tolerances as with the stock end links if my memory is correct. Perhaps someone has installed the end links on the outside (closer to the calipers) then everyone else. If that is the case I could see all kinds of potential problems. Thanks for suggestions, hopefully we can collective solve this potential problem for I would hate to see any of us lose our brakes!

Ray

svxfiles · #**249** 10-13-2011, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by svxcess

Maybe stainless steel lines offer more protection. Aging rubber brake lines may be more susceptible. Would worn rear struts add to the possibility?I think OT ought to comment here with more information on the failure. Seems like the mounting bolts were a different size, not sure. I thought he said that the top bolt on the anti-sway bar link on the passenger side had contacted the banjo bolt to the caliper, causing a brake fluid loss..

OK, It was the top bolt that contacted the banjo bolt at the brake line on the passenger side caliper.
It did not break the bolt, but nuged it enough for a fluid loss, causing the pedal to go to all the way to the floor, slowly.
Perhaps MY Nevin bar is wider than the rest?

When I get the chance to work on my Pearlie, I will measure the width.
Evan with the adjustable links reinstalled and at their shortest adjustment, there is only about 1/4" of clearance between the top bolt and the banjo bolt.
On the drivers side its about 1/2".
Huck, I really dont want to bend a hardened bar.
A set of 150-155mm links would fix it on my Pearlie.
John, the suspension is stock and the springs and struts are in good shape.
So sagging is not an issue with it.

sunvalleyray · #**250** 10-13-2011, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by svxfiles

OK, It was the top bolt that contacted the banjo bolt at the brake line on the passenger side caliper.
It did not break the bolt, but nuged it enough for a fluid loss, causing the pedal to go to all the way to the floor, slowly.
Perhaps MY Nevin bar is wider than the rest?

When I get the chance to work on my Pearlie, I will measure the width.
Evan with the adjustable links reinstalled and at their shortest adjustment, there is only about 1/4" of clearance between the top bolt and the banjo bolt.
On the drivers side its about 1/2".
Huck, I really dont want to bend a hardened bar.
A set of 150-155mm links would fix it on my Pearlie.
John, the suspension is stock and the springs and struts are in good shape.
So sagging is not an issue with it.

OT,

Thanks for the update. I will go out to the garage and measure the distance between end link bolt and banjo bolt, hopefully that will help.

Ray

svxfiles · #**251** 10-13-2011, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunvalleyray

OT,

Thanks for the update. I will go out to the garage and measure the distance between end link bolt and banjo bolt, hopefully that will help.

Ray

Please note that as the suspension unloads, the clearance is decreased.
So that when resting the clearance is greater.

sunvalleyray · #**252** 10-13-2011, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by svxfiles

OK, It was the top bolt that contacted the banjo bolt at the brake line on the passenger side caliper.
It did not break the bolt, but nuged it enough for a fluid loss, causing the pedal to go to all the way to the floor, slowly.
Perhaps MY Nevin bar is wider than the rest?

When I get the chance to work on my Pearlie, I will measure the width.
Evan with the adjustable links reinstalled and at their shortest adjustment, there is only about 1/4" of clearance between the top bolt and the banjo bolt.
On the drivers side its about 1/2".
Huck, I really dont want to bend a hardened bar.
A set of 150-155mm links would fix it on my Pearlie.
John, the suspension is stock and the springs and struts are in good shape.
So sagging is not an issue with it.

OT,

I have about 1/4" on either side. It would seem that it would make sense for Nevin to bend the bars so there is more space. Do you agree?

Ray

svxcess · #**253** 10-13-2011, 05:59 PM

Exactly what are we talking about with these tight clearances? Is this something unique to Tom's pearlie?

Photo of my right end link while in the air. I assume the end of the strut should move upward somewhat when on the ground, closer to the brake line.

I am surprised YT did not see this potential problem when installing them, 1/4" is a pretty thin margin.

Will try to get this same photo of the link (and measurements) with the car on the ground.

,

svxfiles · #**254** 10-13-2011, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunvalleyray

OT,

I have about 1/4" on either side. It would seem that it would make sense for Nevin to bend the bars so there is more space. Do you agree?

Ray

Ray, can you measure the width of your bar,
the outside to outside?

svxfiles · #**255** 10-13-2011, 06:02 PM

John, can you measure the outside to outside at the end of the flat part?