John Kerry: Killing the Democrats chances.... - Page 4

SubaSteevo · #46 11-09-2006, 07:28 AM

Just thought I'd dig up this thread and start some trouble...

So if Kerry killed their chances, how come the Dems still won?

Discuss.

drivemusicnow · #47 11-09-2006, 09:16 AM

hehe you beat me too it.

I expected the outcome, and no-one really believed me. You have to figure that when enough people are pissed. changes actually do happen.

As to the voting machine thing... If it could have been proven, it would be in the courts. I can't be proven, therefor at this time it is really just guessing and statistics. and everyone knows you can make stats say whatever you want them to.

WGJ · #48 11-10-2006, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drivemusicnow

hehe you beat me too it.

I expected the outcome, and no-one really believed me. You have to figure that when enough people are pissed. changes actually do happen.

As to the voting machine thing... If it could have been proven, it would be in the courts. I can't be proven, therefor at this time it is really just guessing and statistics. and everyone knows you can make stats say whatever you want them to.

Lawsuits are not the litmus test of reality or criminal activity, see "HACKING DEMOCRACY", its on cable, HBO. If you want to look for lawsuits as indicitive of anything, you might ask yourself this question, "Why hasn't Diebold sued HBO for "Hacking Democracy" if it's inaccurate? It certainly does not show Diebold in a very good light. However, this has happened:

11-6-06: Ohio professor facing retaliatory (criminal) charges for asking to see vote totals California's Stephen Heller, one of the most courageous citizens in the country, is being prosecuted criminally, facing up to five years in prison for allegedly leaking important evidence from Diebold. You may have seen a reference to this evidence in the HBO documentary, Hacking Democracy, in the scene where Diebold claims to have fixed problems, but the "Release Notes" show that nothing was corrected. Stephen Heller is facing brutal retaliation, and he very much needs your continued help. (See below)
Today we have a new victim of enforced secrecy in elections: Ohio's Dr. Victoria Lovegren, who you also may have seen in the HBO film ("You're in trouble," she admonishes Cuyahoga as they move to buy Diebold). Dr. Lovegren has been notified that she may face criminal charges for attempting to document the precinct-based vote totals tomorrow. Lovegren runs "Ohio Vigilance" ( http://www.ohiovigilance.org )

In "Hacking Democracy" you see Dr. Herbert Thompson implanting a trogan horse into the GEMS central tabulator, altering the election results. He might have been caught, the film says, by comparing the poll tapes -- the results at the polling place -- with GEMS. In Cuyahoga County, though, local officials have refused to post the polling place results, thereby neutralizing the only check and balance that would have caught Dr. Thompson's simple hack.
In fact, it is not even clear if the system remains NASED/EAC certified, if the polling place results aren't posted. Because of very serious vulnerabilities including a controversial (many say illegal) interpreted code called AccuBasic, the EAC says that these voting machine results tapes must be used, and are a critical defense.
But Cuyahoga doesn't want voters to see them. Instead, they want to quietly bring them into headquarters, without posting them.
Enter Victoria Lovegren and a whole bunch of other Cuyahoga and Ohio citizens.
Here's what Dr. Lovegren has to say about what's happening to her:
quote:
November 6th, 2006
Victoria Lovegren may be Arrested on criminal charges for seeking to see precinct-level election results in Cuyahoga County!
Cuyahoga County is filing criminal charges against me because I asked some volunteers for the Vote Count Protection Project to call some of the Election Day Technicians, and ask them if they would be willing to write down some of the Voting Unit election results on a data-collection form, to used for vote-count verification purposes.
We were doing this because Blackwell's directive on 11/1 said that we could not add any more "Observers" to the list of observers, so we could not get "inside access."
We were doing this because Cuyahoga County was NOT going to post results for the public to see.
We were doing this because of Cuyahoga Board of Elections' dismal record of the May Election debacle, secrecy and law-breaking,, and, in general, 92% of the public distrusts electronic voting!
We were doing this because the proposed post-election "audit" being paid for by the Cuyahoga County Board of Elections is a total SHAM! The audit will NOT be counting actual ballots, but sub-totals of ballot counts, and will not be counting all precincts, but a subset of the precincts. Their proposed "audit" is nothing of the sort!
The people want to "see" the precinct-level election results, and the CCBOE is refusing to let us see them. From the calling that volunteers made yesterday, we learned that Election Day Technicians were told, during training, that they could NOT read aloud the totals on the Summary Totals report, they, in fact, could not even LOOK at the totals on the report, and, obviously could not let anyone ELSE look at them.
The CCBOE is continues to operate in secrecy, and are now trying to intimidate anyone who seeks transparency in the election process. They are making an example of me because I am getting too close. How dare we ask to see precinct-level results?
They told me that I could get council and then report to a hearing tomorrow at 1:30pm-election day. They have nothing better to do, on election day, than to stop this dangerous middle-aged woman!
If you would like to support me tomorrow as they throw the book at me-they said I was being charged with criminal "obstruction of business", ORC 2921.31-please come to the Cuyahoga Board of Elections at 1:30pm.
Thanks so much,
Victoria Lovegren, Ph.D.
Cuyahoga Board of Elections
30th and Euclid Avenue
Cleveland, OH
216-443-3200

To contribute to Stephen Heller's defense fund:
http://www.hellerlegaldefensefund.com/
To send your support to Victoria Lovegren:
http://www.ohiovigilance.org/Donate/Index.html

WGJ

Electrophil · #49 11-11-2006, 10:28 AM

I don't think the neo-cons will be around for a while. I heard reserving a U-Haul has turned into a bear for January. They're kind of busy right now.

SubaSteevo · #50 11-11-2006, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Electrophil

I don't think the neo-cons will be around for a while. I heard reserving a U-Haul has turned into a bear for January. They're kind of busy right now.

But you know, if they had won, they'd be running their mouths about how it shows that Americans are still behind Bush and the war is a good thing and so on. Then they would insult the "bleeding heart liberals" and point out that they succeeded despite the efforts of the "liberal media."

Electrophil · #51 11-11-2006, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SubaSteevo

But you know, if they had won, they'd be running their mouths about how it shows that Americans are still behind Bush and the war is a good thing and so on. Then they would insult the "bleeding heart liberals" and point out that they succeeded despite the efforts of the "liberal media."

Excellent point. I say we take the handful of neo-cons left and put them on a plane to Iraq. Then the rest of us can start waving flags and telling them how much we support them. Give em' a little taste of their own medicine.

Manarius · #52 11-11-2006, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SubaSteevo

But you know, if they had won, they'd be running their mouths about how it shows that Americans are still behind Bush and the war is a good thing and so on. Then they would insult the "bleeding heart liberals" and point out that they succeeded despite the efforts of the "liberal media."

Instead they're being bitter and saying that the Dems are going to take away America's security and screw us up. As if America wasn't already screwed up courtesy of the Neo-Cons....

Electrophil · #53 11-30-2006, 06:15 AM

John Kerry did his first live interview since his fiasco on Larry King last night. Something tells me he's going to be 2008's Ralph Nader and split our vote.

He wouldn't say if he's running. Man, I hope not. If he couldn't beat Bush in 2004, there's no hope for him. The refiredacans will be breaking out the big guns on the next one and forcing someone to run vice picking a lame puppet like they've done the last two times.

lhopp77 · #54 11-30-2006, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Electrophil

John Kerry did his first live interview since his fiasco on Larry King last night. Something tells me he's going to be 2008's Ralph Nader and split our vote.

He wouldn't say if he's running. Man, I hope not. If he couldn't beat Bush in 2004, there's no hope for him. The refiredacans will be breaking out the big guns on the next one and forcing someone to run vice picking a lame puppet like they've done the last two times.

Of course we conservatives DO hope he runs again. We are already loading up for him and some others of course.

An example:

"The Editor, Wall Street Journal

Dear Sir/Madame:

I hope you will print this letter about my classmate, John Kerry.
Thank you.

As a graduate of the Yale class of 1966, I resent the self-serving lies and misrepresentations advanced by my classmate John Kerry. Herewith, a few corrections:

John Kerry has been using the Pershing name to dramatize his Vietnam experience, claiming to have been a close friend of Richard Pershing, the grandson of General (Black Jack) Pershing. Richard Pershing was a member of
the Yale class of 1966, and he was killed in Vietnam shortly after we graduated. However, Kerry's constant references to his 'dearest' friend are exaggerated and exploitative. In fact, Dick Pershing and I roomed together
for all 4 years at Yale. I don't remember John Kerry ever being in our room or even being a particular favorite of Dick's.

In this regard, it is particularly revealing that a recent biography of General Pershing, Until The Last Trumpet Sounds (by Gene Smith), includes an entire chapter on Dick, primarily on his years at Yale; the name John
Kerry does not appear. The Pershing Family did know Kerry, but they disliked him intensely. This antipathy stemmed primarily from an incident at the Pershing home on Park Avenue not long after Dick's death: at a gathering of friends and family, Kerry worked the room with his anti-Vietnam message, incurring the undying enmity of Mr. and Mrs. Pershing and Dick's older brother Jack, a Green Beret. The family was shocked and insulted by Kerry's insensitivity.

Kerry has implied - as recently as the first Presidential debate - that he became disillusioned about Vietnam by his military experience. However, as early as 1965, in his junior year at Yale, he was giving anti-war speeches; and his Class Day Oration in 1966 - prior to graduation
criticized American involvement in Vietnam. These sentiments clearly antedated his Vietnam experience. So why did he join the Navy? He told some classmates that it would help his career. The above pattern suggests a
callous and opportunistic personality - hardly what I would call Presidential.

David Schlossberg, MD Yale '66"

Lee

shotgunslade · #55 11-30-2006, 09:11 AM

Not only are all politicians crooks, they are all self-serving narcissists. Contemporary stories of W in graduate school at Harvard describe his "attitude", wearing his Texas Air National Guard jacket and cowboy boots, and affecting a James Dean-like demeanor. Given his academic record, it is a miracle ("snicker, snicker") that he got in to Harvard. I have classmates from Princeton '70 with much better academic and extracurricular records who were shut out by Harvard.

I wonder if there is any politician out there that we could all agree that we mutually admire. My suggestions: Michael Bloomberg, Elliot Spitzer, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Chuck Hagel, Barack Obama, Jim Webb, Arlen Specter. And in retrospect, Barry Goldwater, Harry Truman, Eugene McCarthy (campaigned for him in Savannah, Georgia in 1968). Many of these guys hold positions on specific issues with which I may disagree, but they all seem to be pretty straight shooters. Any thoughts?

mohrds · #56 11-30-2006, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Posted by: Nobody 11/2/2004 9:54:10 AM

Just b4 WW I, there were a number of terrorist attacks on the US forces in the Philippines by Muslim extremists (Yes folks, they've been at this for many many years!). So Gen. Pershing captured 50 terrorist and had them tied to posts for execution.(they wern't afraid to do what it takes in those days). He then had his men bring in two pigs and slaughter them in front of the now horrified terrorists. Muslims detest pork because they believe pigs are filthy animals. Some of them simply refuse to eat it, while others won't even touch pigs at all, nor any of their by-products. To them, eating or touching a pig, its meat, its blood, etc., is to be instantly barred from paradise , and doomed to hell. The soldiers then soaked their bullets in the pigs blood, and proceeded to execute 49 of the terrorists by firing squad. The soldiers then dug a big hole, dumped in the terrorist's bodies and covered them in pig blood, entrails, etc. They let the 50th terrorist go. And for the next 42 years, there was not a single Muslim extremist attack anywhere in the world. Maybe (listen up obl) it is time for this segment of history to repeat itself (updated version), maybe in Iraq? The question is, where do we find another Black Jack Pershing?

Anyone ever hear this story or is this urban legend?

bwb3 · #57 11-30-2006, 10:14 AM

I first heard that story from my father in the 1960's when there was the 6 day war with Israel. Pershing did serve in the Philippines suppressing the rebel uprising.
Gene

RSVX · #58 11-30-2006, 10:35 AM

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pershing.htm

Electrophil · #59 11-30-2006, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lhopp77

Of course we conservatives DO hope he runs again. We are already loading up for him and some others of course.

An example:

"The Editor, Wall Street Journal

Dear Sir/Madame:

I hope you will print this letter about my classmate, John Kerry.
Thank you.

As a graduate of the Yale class of 1966, I resent the self-serving lies and misrepresentations advanced by my classmate John Kerry. Herewith, a few corrections:

John Kerry has been using the Pershing name to dramatize his Vietnam experience, claiming to have been a close friend of Richard Pershing, the grandson of General (Black Jack) Pershing. Richard Pershing was a member of
the Yale class of 1966, and he was killed in Vietnam shortly after we graduated. However, Kerry's constant references to his 'dearest' friend are exaggerated and exploitative. In fact, Dick Pershing and I roomed together
for all 4 years at Yale. I don't remember John Kerry ever being in our room or even being a particular favorite of Dick's.

In this regard, it is particularly revealing that a recent biography of General Pershing, Until The Last Trumpet Sounds (by Gene Smith), includes an entire chapter on Dick, primarily on his years at Yale; the name John
Kerry does not appear. The Pershing Family did know Kerry, but they disliked him intensely. This antipathy stemmed primarily from an incident at the Pershing home on Park Avenue not long after Dick's death: at a gathering of friends and family, Kerry worked the room with his anti-Vietnam message, incurring the undying enmity of Mr. and Mrs. Pershing and Dick's older brother Jack, a Green Beret. The family was shocked and insulted by Kerry's insensitivity.

Kerry has implied - as recently as the first Presidential debate - that he became disillusioned about Vietnam by his military experience. However, as early as 1965, in his junior year at Yale, he was giving anti-war speeches; and his Class Day Oration in 1966 - prior to graduation
criticized American involvement in Vietnam. These sentiments clearly antedated his Vietnam experience. So why did he join the Navy? He told some classmates that it would help his career. The above pattern suggests a
callous and opportunistic personality - hardly what I would call Presidential.

David Schlossberg, MD Yale '66"

Lee

Too many holes in that letter. I don't think it would hold up, and since the "bullet" of the swift boat veterans has already been used, I think people would ignore it this time. After all, it's finally sunk into the minds of most, that they went against Kerry, to vote for a whole truckload of draft dodgers and referrers. This will only remind people of the Bush mistake if used in 2008. This letter with the "Pershing never invited him to his dorm room, but he did invite him home to family dinners so he could spew anti-vietnam venon" won't hold up too well.

Still doesn't change the fact that Kerry needs to stick to the Senate and not screw up the presidential race again.

sicksubie · #60 11-30-2006, 08:10 PM

What Pershing did is what we need to do. Unfortunately there would be a lot of people that would cry foul at that. In today's world Pershing would be forced before a tribunal for his actions. If we don't even allow our military to shine bright lights and play loud rap music to try to get info out of terrorists then imagine what the reaction would be if somebody did what Pershing did.

ps. okay maybe the rap music could be called cruel and unusual punishment