Stop allowing republicans to play with our toys!

[sicksubie]

Originally Posted by Manarius

*sits on the blue side of the bench and is damn proud of it*

First true thing you have said tonight. Congratulations.

[WGJ]

if you are among those whose average income over the last three years was 10 MILLION per year, Bush's tax cuts for the rich SAVED you $500,000 a year! (A little sumptin', sumptin' so you can keep the Land Rover in gas.)
Or 1.5 MILLION IN TAX SAVINGS in just three years!
(A reasonable person could comfortably RETIRE on 1.5 million.)
Those making do with a mere 26 million in annual income actually paid the SAME AMOUNT OF TAX as someone earning as little as $200,000!
Those stats are taken from the GAO's report on the effectiveness (or total lack thereof) of Bush's tax 'breaks'.

On the subject of the 'Great Decider', would someone be kind enough to explain:
1. How Big Oil made a cool TRILLION IN PROFIT last year but I'm still payin' $3.00 a gallon.
2. Why are the prop taxes on a $220k house in Dallas $6500 a year and prop taxes on a $500k house in San Diego less than a third of that?
(And yes it does have something to do with Bush being the former Gov. of Tex)
WGJ
When you've answered these questions I've got lots more.

[Electrophil]

Originally Posted by Phast SVX

You obviously dont know what your talking about, as the marginal tax bracket for a middle class citizen will send well more then 1/10th(10%) of your money to them. At the very least tehy are in the 27% bracket.

phil

They itemize. That 27% is on taxable income.... which probably works out to about 10% if they are homeowners with a mortgage and less than 80k a year.

[Electrophil]

Originally Posted by WGJ

if you are among those whose average income over the last three years was 10 MILLION per year, Bush's tax cuts for the rich SAVED you $500,000 a year! (A little sumptin', sumptin' so you can keep the Land Rover in gas.)
Or 1.5 MILLION IN TAX SAVINGS in just three years!
(A reasonable person could comfortably RETIRE on 1.5 million.)
Those making do with a mere 26 million in annual income actually paid the SAME AMOUNT OF TAX as someone earning as little as $200,000!
Those stats are taken from the GAO's report on the effectiveness (or total lack thereof) of Bush's tax 'breaks'.

On the subject of the 'Great Decider', would someone be kind enough to explain:
1. How Big Oil made a cool TRILLION IN PROFIT last year but I'm still payin' $3.00 a gallon.
2. Why are the prop taxes on a $220k house in Dallas $6500 a year and prop taxes on a $500k house in San Diego less than a third of that?
(And yes it does have something to do with Bush being the former Gov. of Tex)
WGJ
When you've answered these questions I've got lots more.

I just liked this post so much, I wanted it repeated.

[YellowBird]

Originally Posted by Electrophil

I just liked this post so much, I wanted it repeated.

LOFL!

Geesh....I need ten characters to make a post?

[Landshark]

Originally Posted by WGJ

On the subject of the 'Great Decider', would someone be kind enough to explain:
1. How Big Oil made a cool TRILLION IN PROFIT last year but I'm still payin' $3.00 a gallon.
2. Why are the prop taxes on a $220k house in Dallas $6500 a year and prop taxes on a $500k house in San Diego less than a third of that?
(And yes it does have something to do with Bush being the former Gov. of Tex)
WGJ
When you've answered these questions I've got lots more.

1. they are charging $3/gal for gasoline and people are buying it. not too difficult to understand, really. if you don't want to contribute to their profit, don't buy gas. its not your God-given right to be entitled to cheap gasoline. buy an electric car, ride a bike, or take a bus. simple supply and demand.

2. property taxes vary greatly by location. they even vary greatly by community in the same area. why do 1 bedroom apartments in New York City cost more than a big house in Montana? Bush's fault i guess.

[sicksubie]

Originally Posted by Landshark

1. they are charging $3/gal for gasoline and people are buying it. not too difficult to understand, really. if you don't want to contribute to their profit, don't buy gas. its not your God-given right to be entitled to cheap gasoline. buy an electric car, ride a bike, or take a bus. simple supply and demand.

2. property taxes vary greatly by location. they even vary greatly by community in the same area. why do 1 bedroom apartments in New York City cost more than a big house in Montana? Bush's fault i guess.

Exactly. Come on Landshark, haven't you figgered it out yet? Everything is Bush's fault

[WGJ]

1. they are charging $3/gal for gasoline and people are buying it. not too difficult to understand, really. if you don't want to contribute to their profit, don't buy gas. its not your God-given right to be entitled to cheap gasoline. buy an electric car, ride a bike, or take a bus. simple supply and demand.

RESPONSE:1. OK then can we get the 12 BILLION DOLLAR SUBSIDY Bush and congress gave BIG OIL back?
Folks in Lousiana, Mississippi, Alabama and Florida could really use it.
As far as the GOD given right to cheap gas- I never claimed such a right. I questioned the relationship of record prices to (proportionately greater) RECORD BIG OIL profits, particularly at a time of war. Additionally, if we had the gas tax the Republicans refused to enact we would have been paying more all along - it just wouldn't have gone to RECORD BIG OIL profits... some of the TRILLION would have gone to our Gov't. And God has nothing to do with it...I'm secular.
Oh, yeah, whille you've got all these simple answers, could you please try to explain the $400 MILLION RETIREMENT package for the retiring oil exec?

2. property taxes vary greatly by location. they even vary greatly by community in the same area. why do 1 bedroom apartments in New York City cost more than a big house in Montana? Bush's fault i guess.

RESPONSE:2. When GW became Gov of Texas they had the largest surplus in state history...when Bush left they had the BIGGEST DEFICIT IN HISTORY! No state income tax, hence onerous prop tax increases.
The price of the property is irrelevant. Your example reflects SIMPLE SUPPLY AND DEMAND...which has nothing to do with the TAX RATE. Property tax increases in Texas are directly atributable to Bush's stupid and blind adherence to pseudo Reagan voodoo economics. We're just getting a larger scale screwing than the good folks of Texas. A macro-economic hosing, if you will.

Personally, if I were making 26 MILLION a yr. and paying the same taxes as someone only making 200 thousand...I'd be ashamed. How can you possilbly rationalize that huge discrepancy?

Do you think it's OK to NOT PAY ANY TAXES on 25.8 MILLION in INCOME?

WGJ

Hah, not paying taxes on 25.8mil... Really hard to refute that point.
You have to ask yourself, regardless of your partisanship, because that's not going to change, do the rich deserve to not pay as much in taxes by % of income as the rest of us? As I see it, the case could be made that it is discrimination against the poor. Let's have the rich paying the same 10~27% income tax (As we're not going to agree which it is) that the rest of us are paying. Yeah, 25% of 26million is more than I'll see in a lifetime. Why should the government get it? Because they live in our country. I get the feeling if the same question were asked to our forefathers, that the idea of all men being created equal might be brought up. If you can see the forefathers being opposed to these tax regulations, one could further make the argument that it is unconstitutional, and therefore the Supreme Court's job to overrule it.

Not that I haven't picked sides on each of these issues, but I just wish we didn't have democrats and republicans. Both sides tend to vote along party lines, and are even influenced before their vote based on what side they've signed onto. Sounds like we're not able to pick our leaders by what is most important to us, but by what the party says we should do. Sucks

[Manarius]

Originally Posted by Landshark

1. they are charging $3/gal for gasoline and people are buying it. not too difficult to understand, really. if you don't want to contribute to their profit, don't buy gas. its not your God-given right to be entitled to cheap gasoline. buy an electric car, ride a bike, or take a bus. simple supply and demand.

d00d. This is simple supply and demand. Monopolistic competition, when demand is very inelastic, if you raise the price, but keep the same output, people will pay. Gas is an inelastic item, and big oil is milking it for all it's worth.

[mohrds]

Originally Posted by WGJ

When GW became Gov of Texas they had the largest surplus in state history...when Bush left they had the BIGGEST DEFICIT IN HISTORY! No state income tax, hence onerous prop tax increases.
The price of the property is irrelevant. Your example reflects SIMPLE SUPPLY AND DEMAND...which has nothing to do with the TAX RATE. Property tax increases in Texas are directly atributable to Bush's stupid and blind adherence to pseudo Reagan voodoo economics. We're just getting a larger scale screwing than the good folks of Texas. A macro-economic hosing, if you will.

That is the same thing that happend in almost every state. In Wisconsin under a Democratic Governor and Democratic state assembly, we also went from a record surplus to a record deficit.

Plus our property taxes are already the second highest in the nation. Plus we have a state income tax.

[mohrds]

Originally Posted by MigraSVX

Hah, not paying taxes on 25.8mil... Really hard to refute that point.

Actually it is quite easy. Taxes are based on your adjusted gross income, not gross income. The Kerry's and the Kennedy's only pay taxes on a small fraction of their income. The tax code has loop holes made by the same politicians and their supporters that benefit from it. They create foundations, holding companies, etc. and sell and move assets and income around to keep their adjusted gross income down. Its not affiliated with one party, but with a wealthy class that is politicians and political contributors on both sides of the isles. No political party is any more fair to the common folk than the other party.

For instance, I own 100% of my company. For myself I pay Federal tax, State tax, double FICA and Medicare (half from my check and matching from the company), State Unemployment tax, Federal unemployment tax. Property tax and my favorite tax, Business equipment tax! When you add them all up, 72.56% of what I bill a client goes to those taxes.

Originally Posted by MigraSVX

You have to ask yourself, regardless of your partisanship, because that's not going to change, do the rich deserve to not pay as much in taxes by % of income as the rest of us? As I see it, the case could be made that it is discrimination against the poor. Let's have the rich paying the same 10~27% income tax (As we're not going to agree which it is) that the rest of us are paying. Yeah, 25% of 26million is more than I'll see in a lifetime. Why should the government get it? Because they live in our country. I get the feeling if the same question were asked to our forefathers, that the idea of all men being created equal might be brought up. If you can see the forefathers being opposed to these tax regulations, one could further make the argument that it is unconstitutional, and therefore the Supreme Court's job to overrule it.

This is why income tax needs to be abolished and replaced with a federal sales tax. The less you spend, the less you pay. The poor buy a used Honda, the rich buy a new Mercedes. Non-prepared groceries would remain untaxed and utilities would become non-taxable.

There would be no need for IRA's 401Ks etc because there is no income tax to deal with. You just invest your retirement money how you see fit and withdraw it whenever you like.

http://www.fairtax.org

[lhopp77]

Originally Posted by WGJ

Those stats are taken from the GAO's report on the effectiveness (or total lack thereof) of Bush's tax 'breaks'.

Would you please provide a link to this important report you reference. I would love to read it. Believe it or not I am open minded and realistic about things even though somewhat pragmatic.

As another thought though, I could give you a few examples of how GAO looks at things. It might be a bit of an eye opener to realize that many of their supposed "savings" are pie in the sky and not real savings.

Lee

[drivemusicnow]

Originally Posted by mohrds

Actually it is quite easy. Taxes are based on your adjusted gross income, not gross income. The Kerry's and the Kennedy's only pay taxes on a small fraction of their income. The tax code has loop holes made by the same politicians and their supporters that benefit from it. They create foundations, holding companies, etc. and sell and move assets and income around to keep their adjusted gross income down. Its not affiliated with one party, but with a wealthy class that is politicians and political contributors on both sides of the isles. No political party is any more fair to the common folk than the other party.

For instance, I own 100% of my company. For myself I pay Federal tax, State tax, double FICA and Medicare (half from my check and matching from the company), State Unemployment tax, Federal unemployment tax. Property tax and my favorite tax, Business equipment tax! When you add them all up, 72.56% of what I bill a client goes to those taxes.

Holy crap! That is rediculous.

Originally Posted by mohrds

This is why income tax needs to be abolished and replaced with a federal sales tax. The less you spend, the less you pay. The poor buy a used Honda, the rich buy a new Mercedes. Non-prepared groceries would remain untaxed and utilities would become non-taxable.

There would be no need for IRA's 401Ks etc because there is no income tax to deal with. You just invest your retirement money how you see fit and withdraw it whenever you like.

http://www.fairtax.org

I AGREE!!!!

I've been asking people why a straight sales tax isn't used for a while.. It would probably save several hundred trees a year as well. (just for those hippies...)

I think it really comes down to all the accountants that would lose their jobs...

[lhopp77]

I would also strongly support a consumption tax (sales tax) as indicated with the basic needs tax exempt. It is the ONLY fair and equitable system.

Lee