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#1606
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Re: SVX Engine cooling "Again & Again"
I think a solution has been found. I mentioned here http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/showthread.php?t=61824 that I found that when I gutted the EG33 water pump and let an electric water pump do the work it all seemed to work rather well.
A mate of mine has made 750 bhp the other day with a turbo EG33 running a rear radiator and an electric water pump (Davies Craig, their biggest unit). Previously with the stock water pump he was bubbling after a single run. Now it will do run after run at ridiculous power and he can drive around the street without an issue. We'll be taking it racing soon for full testing at F1 power spec haha. So back to the cause - I just think the stock pump flows far to much for the system - I posted a while back that it flows > 300 Litres per minute when I tested it, the flowrate was ridiculous! I also found and posted that the EJ2X was restricted after the pump (far smaller block exits than the EG33) which naturally limited it's flowrate and reduced if not eliminated cavitation. The interesting thing is the electric water pump is less than half that. People may think 130-150L/min may be too little.. but then when it can easily cool a 750 bhp car .... any stocky 200 bhp car will love it also... and then if you look at the engineering - water can only absorb so much energy. When you get above a certain flowrate - you're only removing the same energy and Davies Craig have some very interesting data regarding this on their website. It's rather easy to get a electric water pump into the engine bay - you just need to ensure it's plumbed up correctly - ie heater return is on the suction side etc. I'll report back with more track testing when we get out there. Hopefully will also put an electric pump on my SVX for some testing if I get some time. |
#1607
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Re: SVX Engine cooling "Again & Again"
Have removed
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1995 - SVX 700,000 K Mine, DMS Struts to lift car 2in. Tyres Wrangler Silent Armor 235/70R16, PBR Radiator. 6 speed with DCCD and R180 rer diff, Heavy duty top strut mounts front and rear. Speedo correction box fitted. New stero (gave up on the old one). Back seat removed and 2 spare tyres fitted for desert driving. ECUTune SC sitting in the box for the next SVX. 1992 - SVX 255 K Wife (Want to stay Married so not allowed to fit SC) 1992 - SVX Pearl with black roof race car roll cauge etc ready to race. Ex Tasman Targa car. 1995 - SVX Green low k mint condiation. 1995 - SVX Rally car, ex Matts car. Now to be used on track. 1992 - SVX red & Black being converted to Mid Engine. 1995 - SVX Red 143,000 bit rough. Owned 5 others Subaru back to a 1974 1400 GSR. Last edited by Dessertrunner; 09-26-2013 at 12:11 PM. |
#1608
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Re: SVX Engine cooling "Again & Again"
I wonder what would happen with the waterless Evans coolant..... I was very close to trying it when I had the engine open and replaced the whole cooling system (except the heater core).
******** I was at a track during last weekend. Engine cooling had not issues what so ever (after the HG job). +20C ambient. When pushing the car "a bit harder " the tranny went into over temp mode after two laps. No light, so the 101C threshold was exceeded, but not the 107C (lamp). I need an external cooler. Then I can push the car longer to really test the engine cooling. Tapani |
#1609
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Re: SVX Engine cooling "Again & Again"
Have removed
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1995 - SVX 700,000 K Mine, DMS Struts to lift car 2in. Tyres Wrangler Silent Armor 235/70R16, PBR Radiator. 6 speed with DCCD and R180 rer diff, Heavy duty top strut mounts front and rear. Speedo correction box fitted. New stero (gave up on the old one). Back seat removed and 2 spare tyres fitted for desert driving. ECUTune SC sitting in the box for the next SVX. 1992 - SVX 255 K Wife (Want to stay Married so not allowed to fit SC) 1992 - SVX Pearl with black roof race car roll cauge etc ready to race. Ex Tasman Targa car. 1995 - SVX Green low k mint condiation. 1995 - SVX Rally car, ex Matts car. Now to be used on track. 1992 - SVX red & Black being converted to Mid Engine. 1995 - SVX Red 143,000 bit rough. Owned 5 others Subaru back to a 1974 1400 GSR. Last edited by Dessertrunner; 09-26-2013 at 12:10 PM. |
#1610
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Re: SVX Engine cooling "Again & Again"
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But yes, test will be when it hits the track. The difference between 10'C and 40'C is the amount of air you need to hit the radiator. As seen in V8SC, they simply add restriction to the front of the radiator on cold days and open it up on hot days. |
#1611
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Re: SVX Engine cooling "Again & Again"
Electric pump + gutted stock WP worked for the EFILogics guys as well. How does one go about "gutting" a water pump?
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'94 Laguna Blue LSi ~159k.......JDM ultra short-geared 3.900 STi Version 7 6-speed w/ Cobb shortshifter, ECUtune 244,8.1mm/256,9.1mm i/e cams, group N motor mounts, '97 grille, JDM clear corners, Momo JDM Legacy GT steering wheel, apkarian's LED tails, silver STi BBS wheels, PWR radiator, redstuff pads f/r, drilled/slotted rotors, bontragerworks rsb #18, Koni/GC 450f/375r coilovers, Megan Racing adjustable lateral links, KMac c/c plates, Stebro exhaust, ECUtune 1v5, Optima battery in the trunk where it belongs. Turbo project '97 Ebony LSi ~137k #036.......Power mode mod, JDM clear corners, BBS wheels. AUX/pocket mod Now a mod "over there" ............Photo album |
#1612
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Re: SVX Engine cooling "Again & Again"
How about decreasing the efficiency of the stock pump?
/T |
#1613
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Re: SVX Engine cooling "Again & Again"
How do you reckon it could be done? Removing 2 blades? Filing out outside?
Nice thing about electric pump is you gain hp. BWM also run many cars with EWP and many new cars will as they move to instant start - ie car is off in traffic a lot so needs an electric pump to keep water flowing. |
#1614
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Re: SVX Engine cooling "Again & Again"
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The pump efficiency has been discussed for a long time. This is post #9: Tony, trying to apply some crude logic to your previous results. /Tapani |
#1615
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Re: SVX Engine cooling "Again & Again"
Have removed
__________________
1995 - SVX 700,000 K Mine, DMS Struts to lift car 2in. Tyres Wrangler Silent Armor 235/70R16, PBR Radiator. 6 speed with DCCD and R180 rer diff, Heavy duty top strut mounts front and rear. Speedo correction box fitted. New stero (gave up on the old one). Back seat removed and 2 spare tyres fitted for desert driving. ECUTune SC sitting in the box for the next SVX. 1992 - SVX 255 K Wife (Want to stay Married so not allowed to fit SC) 1992 - SVX Pearl with black roof race car roll cauge etc ready to race. Ex Tasman Targa car. 1995 - SVX Green low k mint condiation. 1995 - SVX Rally car, ex Matts car. Now to be used on track. 1992 - SVX red & Black being converted to Mid Engine. 1995 - SVX Red 143,000 bit rough. Owned 5 others Subaru back to a 1974 1400 GSR. Last edited by Dessertrunner; 09-26-2013 at 12:10 PM. |
#1616
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Re: SVX Engine cooling "Again & Again"
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A good thing about the electric pump is you don't need a thermostat - the electronic controller does the work. So you can be flowing at max flowrate at idle and even when the engine is shut down. Issue is the electric pumps have a very specific life time. I think it's 75,000 kms for BMW units... but something to be mindful of. Also doing some more research - Mazda (RX8) and Honda (S2000) water pumps seem to also suffer cavitation issues and time attack guys swap them out for EWP's! Last edited by bazza; 09-25-2013 at 03:43 AM. |
#1617
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Re: SVX Engine cooling "Again & Again"
Ever hear of a bypass using a pressure relief valve? Oh yeah, I already mentioned this.....
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Tony 1996 Polo Green Subaru SVX LSi, 168,XXX miles, Redline D4 ATF, Redline 75W90 gear oil, K&N HP-4001 Oil Filter, Mobil 1 5W50 FS (3qt) and 5W30 High Mileage (4qt) Oil Blend, Motul RBF600 Brake Fluid, AC Delco A975C Air Filter, NGK BKR6EIX-11 plugs, Centric Rotors, Power Stop Evolution Carbon Fiber Ceramic Brake Pads 2005 Gray Acura RL, 165,XXX miles, Redline D4 ATF with Lubegard Platinum Protectant, Mobil 1 5W20 High Mileage Extended Performance Oil 2009 Red Toyota Venza, 123,XXX, Mobil 1 5W30 High Mileage Oil 1992 Red Ferrari 348 ts, 82,XXX, Redline everything |
#1618
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Re: SVX Engine cooling "Again & Again"
Quote:
http://etd.lib.clemson.edu/documents...emson-1042.pdf /T |
#1619
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Re: SVX Engine cooling "Again & Again"
Quote:
Also the link to the artical on quick read says he used a 3/4hp electric pump. Were the hell are you going to get a alternator to run that. I have decided that I am not contributing to this forum for a while as I am sick of the indirect attacks. Tony
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1995 - SVX 700,000 K Mine, DMS Struts to lift car 2in. Tyres Wrangler Silent Armor 235/70R16, PBR Radiator. 6 speed with DCCD and R180 rer diff, Heavy duty top strut mounts front and rear. Speedo correction box fitted. New stero (gave up on the old one). Back seat removed and 2 spare tyres fitted for desert driving. ECUTune SC sitting in the box for the next SVX. 1992 - SVX 255 K Wife (Want to stay Married so not allowed to fit SC) 1992 - SVX Pearl with black roof race car roll cauge etc ready to race. Ex Tasman Targa car. 1995 - SVX Green low k mint condiation. 1995 - SVX Rally car, ex Matts car. Now to be used on track. 1992 - SVX red & Black being converted to Mid Engine. 1995 - SVX Red 143,000 bit rough. Owned 5 others Subaru back to a 1974 1400 GSR. Last edited by Dessertrunner; 09-25-2013 at 01:45 PM. |
#1620
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Re: SVX Engine cooling "Again & Again"
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http://www.daviescraig.com.au/Images...ecs%202009.pdf The Davies Craig as I mentioned is only 185W flat out. You said Steve's was 3/4 hp or 500W. P=VI or P/V=I 500W / 12V = 41A Stock alternator will handle that and if not the newer alternators are rated at well over 100A. Not sure about Steve's impeller but if there's a will, there's a way, probably best to start with a brand new unit as the older ones tend to be brittle. I was once told I couldn't TIG weld up a cast turbo exhaust housing... took a while but got there. However I think if the pump is the issue then get rid of it. I'm starting to think the bigger inlet, pressure valves, bigger radiators, cross flow radiators, better flow, special coolant, different caps are all band-aid fixes and the major issue remains - the pump is simply too big. So from my point of view for both my street SVX and EG33 race motor, it's simple... gut it and use something far more suitable - ie electric water pump or a smaller mechanical pump - although you really want to reduce complexity so either have to be really well thought out. A major thing you'd want is safety as EWP have less life - so for my setup I'd simply have the engine shut down above 110'C. Last edited by bazza; 09-25-2013 at 07:27 PM. |
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