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  #331  
Old 12-15-2004, 08:49 PM
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Has anyone every thought about an individual timing control unit? I have been introduced to the safegaurd system made by J&S. I am still a little hazy about this system but it might be helpful for this application.

As far as i understand(could be drastically wrong so do your research first) this systyem will function along side tyhe stock ignition system. It has individual knock control so if any cylinder comes too close to knock(detonation) it will retard the timing accordingly. This might help him with the ignition problems now that he has a fuel system figured out. The unit cost around 600-700 as far as i know. Might be worth looking at.
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  #332  
Old 12-15-2004, 09:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by tomssvx
Has anyone every thought about an individual timing control unit? I have been introduced to the safegaurd system made by J&S. I am still a little hazy about this system but it might be helpful for this application.

As far as i understand(could be drastically wrong so do your research first) this systyem will function along side tyhe stock ignition system. It has individual knock control so if any cylinder comes too close to knock(detonation) it will retard the timing accordingly. This might help him with the ignition problems now that he has a fuel system figured out. The unit cost around 600-700 as far as i know. Might be worth looking at.
You're definetly on the right track, but those are more worthwhile if you've got a full-tilt 2JZ-GTE with $12,000 worth of HKS 3.3L stroker kit in it.

The 87 octane map will be enough timing retard for moderate boosting on the stock motor. Once he goes to lower compression, he'll have a desireable ammount of elbow room to boost her like crazy..

SVXtacy considered a J&S but it was just too much money for not enough gains. Honestly if he pops the motor, rebuilding it is something we need to do eventually anyway to take full advantage of the turbo setup (reduced compression, forged pistons, etc). The other problem is that nobody knows if its fully compatible with the EG33's stock ECU and we didn't want to find out the hard way. If he goes to a standalone on a built engine, then the $700 imight be worth the peace of mind. Until then, its just not worth it to him, and I agree 100%. Widebands are cheaper anyway .
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  #333  
Old 12-15-2004, 11:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wreckless


You're definetly on the right track, but those are more worthwhile if you've got a full-tilt 2JZ-GTE with $12,000 worth of HKS 3.3L stroker kit in it.

The 87 octane map will be enough timing retard for moderate boosting on the stock motor. Once he goes to lower compression, he'll have a desireable ammount of elbow room to boost her like crazy..

SVXtacy considered a J&S but it was just too much money for not enough gains. Honestly if he pops the motor, rebuilding it is something we need to do eventually anyway to take full advantage of the turbo setup (reduced compression, forged pistons, etc). The other problem is that nobody knows if its fully compatible with the EG33's stock ECU and we didn't want to find out the hard way. If he goes to a standalone on a built engine, then the $700 imight be worth the peace of mind. Until then, its just not worth it to him, and I agree 100%. Widebands are cheaper anyway .
Quite the 7M fan eh? Something tells me that a stroker 2j would have EMS or if oldskool VPC/GCC writen all over it :\ There is also the new unit which is more liek a 2nd gen vpc from powerhouse. ive only installed a j&s unit on a 13g'd miata(greddy kit) running 8lbs and no i/c. Although that block was ment for boost, even had an extra oil feed nipple on the block. The j&s allowed us to set timing on the distributor from -4 to +7, and the led readout allows you to watch the unit pulled timing. We went from 130ish at the wheels to alomst 160 rwhp from the j&s alone on just a few lbs of boost. The reason being the miata didnt come with a knock sensor at all, so it would be only be a ligitamate expenditure for SVXTacy if our duel knock sensor system was sub par, or started to retard timing in conditions across the board for some reason due to detonation.

just my 2 cents
phil
(built a few mkiv's in my day, actually working on a 1j mkiii swap right now )
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Last edited by Phast SVX; 12-15-2004 at 11:55 PM.
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  #334  
Old 12-15-2004, 11:57 PM
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also whats up with the shaft on your avater? im havinh trouble decideing weather something submerged itself in there or its just shaft play to the extreme
phil
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  #335  
Old 12-16-2004, 01:30 AM
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My Avatar is actually my first CT-26 that I murdered by running 15psi at this elevation... first of three stock CT-26's I destroyed running 15psi on my '87T. Yes, that's whats left of the compressor wheel, lol. EBC's are evil, I swear..

I would only hope that someone dropping 12k in that HKS stroker kit was not still on stock twins with the stock ECU. The VPC/GCC or AFC combo is a proven configuration, but at the power levels you'd be shooting for to justify a $12,000 stroker kit the stock ECU would just have to go.
Plenty of 7M's over 600hp on VPC/AFC combos though. Mines not one of them yet, but will be soon. Like SVXtacy I'm a broke college student that is gradually getting the money to do things piecemeal.

I've done a hell of a lot of wrenching on 7M supras and some various other imports. Boost is addictive, and I think my silver car at 15psi so many moons ago was part of the inspiriation behind both SVXtacy's project and another mutual friends GT28/laminova a2w powered Saturn SC2.

Cool work on the Miata, there's some turbo Miata guys here including one who recently set the world record for quickest/fastest miata, he's got a first gen with a built 1.8L swap on a Haltech with a 60mm-ish turbo on it, ran a 10.9x @ 139 here at 5500ft at one of the countries worst drag strips, cutting a kinda weak 1.89 60ft on drag radials. After he ran a lot of the Turbo Mustang guys cooled their heels about the "gay" car, lol. The miata gang here hates the 1.6L almost universally, and picking up a JDM BPD swap is almost always the first thing they do before boost, after rebuilding it w/ low comp pistons anyway.

I couldn't find a straight answer from anyone on the integration of the J&S with the stock ECU and the coil-on-plug ignition system on the SVX, then again I didnt look very hard because he couldn't afford it anyway. Few (if any) people in the Supra world use a J&S because the mod path is so proven, so I had no luck finding info there. Making it work with a distributor is much, much easier to my knowledge. Then again, even if it had been useful its $700 more that he really didnt have. We'll just tune it fat on the wideband and flog her like a wench, gently of course.

I was thinking about a 1J for my '89T since it has the later style crossmember that bolts to the OEM 1J mounts, but with all the money and research I have into 7M's I'm waiting to see how my silver car (87T) does once I finally pick a turbo to bolt to the Blitz manifold I picked up for it. It will be the garden variety VPC/AFC setup with the 550cc injectors & ROM. Supra TT pump rewire, AFPR, etc tec. Been thinking about a GT35/40R if I could find one for cheap with a T4 flange, or a GT4088 if I wanted to be a bit crazier. I just want a turbo with growth room but I'm not out of its efficentcy range at lower boost levels. There's several MK3's here in ABQ making over 500rwhp SAE, I'm ok with around 500hp but the '87T will be gutted and the only things left will be the door panels, carpet, dash, racing seats, and a rollbar/cage. The '89T will be my daily until the '87T is running and happy.I can't wait to get better coilovers.

/homer voice "mmmmmm coilovers"....

-Jeff
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  #336  
Old 12-16-2004, 03:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by tomssvx
Has anyone every thought about an individual timing control unit? I have been introduced to the safegaurd system made by J&S. I am still a little hazy about this system but it might be helpful for this application.

As far as i understand(could be drastically wrong so do your research first) this systyem will function along side tyhe stock ignition system. It has individual knock control so if any cylinder comes too close to knock(detonation) it will retard the timing accordingly. This might help him with the ignition problems now that he has a fuel system figured out. The unit cost around 600-700 as far as i know. Might be worth looking at.
mmm group buy for less? let's look deeply about it. we need a system like that but we should also consider fuel consumption... with the process...
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  #337  
Old 12-16-2004, 08:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by SilverSpear


mmm group buy for less? let's look deeply about it. we need a system like that but we should also consider fuel consumption... with the process...
umm read... above
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  #338  
Old 12-16-2004, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by drivemusicnow


umm read... above
Oups, I may be carried away by the price tag !!! but frankly speaking, I didn't undertand all the things he stated above. I may know them in other measures (you use inch, we use centimeters, u use farenheit, we use degree celsius, I speak french more, you speak english !!).
Man i am facing few linguistic problems...
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  #339  
Old 12-16-2004, 08:29 AM
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well, basically, Wreckless, SVXtacy's friend who helped him out on the progect a bit, doesn't think it would be worth the time to use the "per cylinder timing control" kinda thing. Basically, hes saying the best way for SVXtacy to control everything, was through just a basic "additional injecdtor controller??" i think thats what AIC stands for.

The BEST option would still be a standalone, however in SVXtacy's setup, the price, and the difficulty to tune normal driving operation eliminated it. From what it sounds like, He really did a good job for what he wanted. low to moderate boost levels, without spending a fortune, however i'm sure it wasn't cheap. I bet hes still haveing nightmares about the plumbing though.
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  #340  
Old 12-16-2004, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by drivemusicnow
well, basically, Wreckless, SVXtacy's friend who helped him out on the progect a bit, doesn't think it would be worth the time to use the "per cylinder timing control" kinda thing. Basically, hes saying the best way for SVXtacy to control everything, was through just a basic "additional injecdtor controller??" i think thats what AIC stands for.

The BEST option would still be a standalone, however in SVXtacy's setup, the price, and the difficulty to tune normal driving operation eliminated it. From what it sounds like, He really did a good job for what he wanted. low to moderate boost levels, without spending a fortune, however i'm sure it wasn't cheap. I bet hes still haveing nightmares about the plumbing though.
Somebody mentioned a system known as the M1. it controls the exact amount of fuel for the exact amount of oxygen which gets into the engine... I guess this system is very effective.
So according to what I have read about it, you can install 370 cc injectors and do the mods to the engine from internals and turbo, etc... and the system will controls the best fuel/O2 mix for the best consumption possible... pls correct me if I am wrong
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  #341  
Old 12-16-2004, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wreckless
...
I couldn't find a straight answer from anyone on the integration of the J&S with the stock ECU and the coil-on-plug ignition system on the SVX, then again I didnt look very hard because he couldn't afford it anyway. Few (if any) people in the Supra world use a J&S because the mod path is so proven, so I had no luck finding info there. Making it work with a distributor is much, much easier to my knowledge. Then again, even if it had been useful its $700 more that he really didnt have. We'll just tune it fat on the wideband and flog her like a wench, gently of course. ....

-Jeff
I talked with John at J&S about this a while ago, and the Safeguard can be adapted to the SVX using the 350z install kit. FWIW, the installation converts the ignition format to wasted spark. If the Supra guys don't have a problem with wasted spark, then I wouldn't imagine the SVX would have a problem with wasted spark. As far as knock-based timing retard goes, the J&S reacts more quickly than the knock-based retard system in the SVX ECU, so there is no conflict between the two systems.

IMHO, the J&S would be a perfect addition to SVXtasy's turbo install.
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Last edited by mbtoloczko; 12-16-2004 at 12:07 PM.
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  #342  
Old 12-16-2004, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by mbtoloczko


I talked with John at J&S about this a while ago, and the Safeguard ban be adapted to the SVX using the 350z install kit. FWIW, the installation converts the ignition format to wasted spark. If the Supra guys don't have a problem with wasted spark, then I wouldn't imagine the SVX would have a problem with wasted spark. As far as knock-based timing retard goes, the J&S reacts more quickly than the knock-based retard system in the SVX ECU, so there is no conflict between the two systems.

IMHO, the J&S would be a perfect addition to SVXtasy's turbo install.
I agree fully but I think that the 700$ is goign to be better spent else where.
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  #343  
Old 12-16-2004, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by SVXtasy


I agree fully but I think that the 700$ is goign to be better spent else where.
We need to start a J&S fund for SVXtasy's turbo! :-)))
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SVX Mods: ND iridium spark plugs, Impreza RS fpr, afr tuned to 13.2:1 using a custom MAF bypass, custom exhaust, WRX 5MT w/ STi RA 1st-4th gear & stock WRX 5th gear, Exedy 13 lb flywheel & Sport Clutch, STi Group N tranny & engine mounts, urethane spacers in rear subframe, rear diff mounts, and pitch stopper, SVX Sport Strut Springs (185f/150r), custom 19 mm rear swaybar, urethane swaybar mounts, Rota Torque 17x8", 225/45-17 Proxes 4 tires, Axxis Deluxe Plus organic brake pads.
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  #344  
Old 12-16-2004, 11:33 AM
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Talking

that sounds like a good idea
PS (I have famly in the tricitys area. next time I am up there I will send you a PM)
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  #345  
Old 12-16-2004, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by SVXtasy
that sounds like a good idea
PS (I have famly in the tricitys area. next time I am up there I will send you a PM)
Definitely send me a PM. And I'll buy you a case of beer (or whatever you like to drink) if you drive your car to the Tri-Cities! :-)

I'm starting a J&S fund for your turbo. My only request is that if the fund gets high enough to buy a J&S, then you dyno the car with the J&S disabled and then enabled.

J&S fund for SVXtasy's turbo
1) mbtoloczko $25 (really)
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:: 2006 Silver Mitsubishi Evolution 9, E85, 34 psi peak, 425wtq/505whp DJ ::
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SVX Mods: ND iridium spark plugs, Impreza RS fpr, afr tuned to 13.2:1 using a custom MAF bypass, custom exhaust, WRX 5MT w/ STi RA 1st-4th gear & stock WRX 5th gear, Exedy 13 lb flywheel & Sport Clutch, STi Group N tranny & engine mounts, urethane spacers in rear subframe, rear diff mounts, and pitch stopper, SVX Sport Strut Springs (185f/150r), custom 19 mm rear swaybar, urethane swaybar mounts, Rota Torque 17x8", 225/45-17 Proxes 4 tires, Axxis Deluxe Plus organic brake pads.

Last edited by mbtoloczko; 12-16-2004 at 12:10 PM.
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