BRZ vs Miata

[icingdeath88]

Originally Posted by Landshark

but him baited me.

And him should have not done that. But you should not have let it work.

Now, back on topic. I wonder how long it will take before production is high enough that dealers have stock for me to test drive one. I remember when the genesis coupe was new and still like 6 months after it came out, the dealership by me didn't have any on the lot that weren't already claimed.

[subbieatnz]

I dont know when I get to test drive one...
NZ only gets 12 Brzs for 2012. Released here on the 12.12.2012
I heard Toyota NZ will release the 86 in August. Hopefully I get to test drive one.

[LetItSnow]

Originally Posted by immortal_suby

I'm still puzzled why you keep coming back to a subaru forum just to crap all over them. I remember drinking beers with you at reading many years ago and you seemed to be a nice guy.

"Remember", "beers", "Reading"? LIAR!!

[wdb]

Originally Posted by immortal_suby

A little more HP would be nice, but I think I'll be pleased with what it has considering I'll be going from 230 hp @ 3600 lbs to 200 hp @ 2700 lbs. Should be a fun ride. I don't drag race as it is so I don't plan to with this one.

I have to say that you're probably right, and the early models may be the best of the breed*. Subaru engineers plainly put a LOT of thought into balancing power, weight, CoG, polar moments, and whatnot, to come to the point they came to with the BRZ. It may well be that a better balance is not to be had.

That said, they are putting craptastic tires on it from the factory, and several of the early road testers have commented that they felt the chassis was capable of handling more power. Plus I would be coming from ~330hp @ ~3300lbs.



* "The best year for an STi" is a hot topic amongst owners. There is a strong argument to be made that the '04 STi was the best of the breed, particularly from the 'pure beast of a road going rally car' standpoint. As the car matured, it got fatter.

[Landshark]

Originally Posted by wdb

I have to say that you're probably right, and the early models may be the best of the breed*. Subaru engineers plainly put a LOT of thought into balancing power, weight, CoG, polar moments, and whatnot, to come to the point they came to with the BRZ. It may well be that a better balance is not to be had.

That said, they are putting craptastic tires on it from the factory, and several of the early road testers have commented that they felt the chassis was capable of handling more power. Plus I would be coming from ~330hp @ ~3300lbs.



* "The best year for an STi" is a hot topic amongst owners. There is a strong argument to be made that the '04 STi was the best of the breed, particularly from the 'pure beast of a road going rally car' standpoint. As the car matured, it got fatter.

I would miss AWD more than the power, although going backwards from almost 400hp would be difficult. AWD and not having to have a winter beater is what brought me to the SVX and Subaru in the first place. Unlike some of you maniacs, i dont have time to deal with 3 vehicles (or 15 ).

Best looking STI, was definitely 04-05, with the 04 having the best stereo.

[benebob]

Originally Posted by immortal_suby

I'm still puzzled why you keep coming back to a subaru forum just to crap all over them. I remember drinking beers with you at reading many years ago and you seemed to be a nice guy.

That's where you are wrong. This isn't a Subaru forum. It is a Subaru SVX forum and I crap on the SVX a whole lot less than most long term members. I could've asked you why you're posting your desire to buy a chick car on an SVX forum but I didn't feel the need as it is something that I'd consider buying in about 9 years, when my daughter turns 16 unless they bring back the Celica.

[immortal_suby]

Originally Posted by benebob

That's where you are wrong. This isn't a Subaru forum. It is a Subaru SVX forum and I crap on the SVX a whole lot less than most long term members. I could've asked you why you're posting your desire to buy a chick car on an SVX forum but I didn't feel the need as it is something that I'd consider buying in about 9 years, when my daughter turns 16 unless they bring back the Celica.

I'd take that bait and fire back but damnit man, jaguar, and what is it triumph? it's just too easy a target. It would be like pooping on poop.

So now I semi understand your motive. You wish to save us from liking or purchasing anything subaru related by ****ting on it when the chance arises and calling people morons. Well, have fun with your crusade here of thread crapper extraordinaire. Your bitterness certainly has been a service to the community.

[Huskymaniac]

Originally Posted by benebob

There's a moron born every day and someone needs to sell them cars. That explains how Pontiac sold the Aztec and the same reason why Subaru sells the Tribeca, Outcrap, and just finished with the BAHA.:

Glad you had luck with your subaru. My last was so bad I still have a bad taste in my mouth from it and that awesome reliability and quality it had (if your comparing it to a Model T that is) If Subaru still made cars like my EA81 I would still have one. Sadly, they don't so I'm more than content with being the owner of the oldest Fuji product this side of the pond in my 58 Rabbit.

Don't worry, you'll get burnt by Subaru soon enough.

I doubt most Subaru owners think their cars are more reliable than they are. I am well aware that Subarus are far from perfect and have issues. The reality is that they are the best buy if one wants decent reliability and all wheel drive and functionality. The real morons are the ones that buy cars that they "think" are more reliable or higher quality AND spend a lot more money for them when they aren't more reliable at all.

As I get older, and my income increases, I may want a more reliable car and will be willing to spend more for it. If that day comes, I will probably buy a Honda NOT a Mitsubishi, Mazda, Nissan, Jaguar, Fiat, Volvo, Audi, VW, BMW or even a Mercedes. You can get a lemon from any of these car companies just as much as you can from Subaru. Instead of listening to what people who overpaid for some of these cars say about their cars, look at the quality and reliability data that exists. People are usually hesitant to admit they made a dumb decision. I'm not spending a crap more money on a German (or British) luxury car, for example, that is barely more reliable, if at all, than a Subaru. Hell, if Subaru pissed me off enough, I would probably buy a Ford or Hyundai before I overpaid for some of these Euro-illusions.

[benebob]

Originally Posted by immortal_suby

I'd take that bait and fire back but damnit man, jaguar, and what is it triumph? it's just too easy a target. It would be like pooping on poop.

So now I semi understand your motive. You wish to save us from liking or purchasing anything subaru related by ****ting on it when the chance arises and calling people morons. Well, have fun with your crusade here of thread crapper extraordinaire. Your bitterness certainly has been a service to the community.

Sadly those Jags in the driveway are more reliable then the Legacy they replaced. If that it too tough a pill for someone with chick car desires to understand then I feel sorry for ya. Maybe one day you'll graduate to a NX1600 or even the ultimate... a VW Cabriolet.

Bitter, not at all, just sharing my experience. If everyone had a good experience with buying Subarus why then why are there other car companies out there? Why has it been going on 15 years that Subaru cannot figure out how to build an automatic tranny or even a head gasket that doesn't fail prematurely. These are the questions one should ask before preordering another, not just what color should I get and does it match my finger nail polish.

[benebob]

Originally Posted by Huskymaniac

I doubt most Subaru owners think their cars are more reliable than they are. I am well aware that Subarus are far from perfect and have issues. The reality is that they are the best buy if one wants decent reliability and all wheel drive and functionality. The real morons are the ones that buy cars that they "think" are more reliable or higher quality AND spend a lot more money for them when they aren't more reliable at all.

As I get older, and my income increases, I may want a more reliable car and will be willing to spend more for it. If that day comes, I will probably buy a Honda NOT a Mitsubishi, Mazda, Nissan, Jaguar, Fiat, Volvo, Audi, VW, BMW or even a Mercedes. You can get a lemon from any of these car companies just as much as you can from Subaru. Instead of listening to what people who overpaid for some of these cars say about their cars, look at the quality and reliability data that exists. People are usually hesitant to admit they made a dumb decision. I'm not spending a crap more money on a German (or British) luxury car, for example, that is barely more reliable, if at all, than a Subaru. Hell, if Subaru pissed me off enough, I would probably buy a Ford or Hyundai before I overpaid for some of these Euro-illusions.

So find me a 2008 Subaru with a clean car fax, under 100k in a 5 speed that isn't a stripper for less than $6k and we can talk aout overpaying for Euro-illusions. Heck my 400hp XJR was nearly an even swap for a same year Legacy GT with only 15k more miles on it. Shockingly the coolant stays in this car and the clear coat isn't peeling either.

[dbarnblatt]

Originally Posted by benebob

So find me a 2008 Subaru with a clean car fax, under 100k in a 5 speed that isn't a stripper for less than $6k and we can talk aout overpaying for Euro-illusions. Heck my 400hp XJR was nearly an even swap for a same year Legacy GT with only 15k more miles on it. Shockingly the coolant stays in this car and the clear coat isn't peeling either.

But you are comparing 2 different cars in a USED market. Would you have made the same choice looking at a new $32K Subaru vs. a new $70K Jaguar?

As far as buying a new car... the Subaru is a much better *deal!* Warts and all...

It's a USED market and has nothing to do with what the value is based on the car NEW. Heck, that's why our SVX's are such a good deal!

[dbarnblatt]

Originally Posted by benebob

Sadly those Jags in the driveway are more reliable then the Legacy they replaced. If that it too tough a pill for someone with chick car desires to understand then I feel sorry for ya. Maybe one day you'll graduate to a NX1600 or even the ultimate... a VW Cabriolet.

Bitter, not at all, just sharing my experience. If everyone had a good experience with buying Subarus why then why are there other car companies out there? Why has it been going on 15 years that Subaru cannot figure out how to build an automatic tranny or even a head gasket that doesn't fail prematurely. These are the questions one should ask before preordering another, not just what color should I get and does it match my finger nail polish.

You, like any other consumer, are just relating your experience of the car you purchased. You had a problem, you vent on the internet, write a letter to the manufacturer, etc. But, lets face it, a problem usually has a rant or voice attached as customers that don't like problems and companies make sure to let other people hear about their problem.

While on the other hand, a customer without a problem usually has no voice or desire to rant. Thousands of customers go on with their lives as happy customers because nothing is breaking or gone bad. To put it bluntly, a disappointed customer will tell friends, a happy customer will keep quiet. This is a marketing fact.

And what's with all the chick car stuff, what are you talking about?

[icingdeath88]

Originally Posted by dbarnblatt

And what's with all the chick car stuff, what are you talking about?

He thinks the BRZ is a chick car. Like a TC or an Eclipse.

[benebob]

Originally Posted by dbarnblatt

But you are comparing 2 different cars in a USED market. Would you have made the same choice looking at a new $32K Subaru vs. a new $70K Jaguar?

As far as buying a new car... the Subaru is a much better *deal!* Warts and all...

It's a USED market and has nothing to do with what the value is based on the car NEW. Heck, that's why our SVX's are such a good deal!

Your point is?

I buy my cars used as they sit for much of the time and rot away so me just like 60% of the population doesn't give a crap what a good deal a new car. With your logic that Yugo looks pretty good as a purchase. It was real cheap new.

As far as price, that's where you're wrong. My Lego GT came in at just over $25k new. The one Jag list price was $29995 2 years later so price wise they are VERY close new. Only difference is I would have had to give up a weather band radio, heated seats and only got 42 extra ponies in return so yeah that Lego is surely a much better "deal". So much so I didn't sell it to a private party but rather a wholesaler because I didn't want to be remembered for selling crap to a private person.

[Sean486]

Originally Posted by benebob

Your point is?

I buy my cars used as they sit for much of the time and rot away so me just like 60% of the population doesn't give a crap what a good deal a new car. With your logic that Yugo looks pretty good as a purchase. It was real cheap new.

As far as price, that's where you're wrong. My Lego GT came in at just over $25k new. The one Jag list price was $29995 2 years later so price wise they are VERY close new. Only difference is I would have had to give up a weather band radio, heated seats and only got 42 extra ponies in return so yeah that Lego is surely a much better "deal". So much so I didn't sell it to a private party but rather a wholesaler because I didn't want to be remembered for selling crap to a private person.

What exactly was your problem with the GT? What year was it and what all went wrong with it that it soured you so much?