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  #1  
Old 02-07-2003, 08:10 PM
L1P1
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Mid-Engine SVX

Hi folks, I hope you can help (and I'm sorry in advance for being long winded).... I come here after a long series of internet searches trying to hash out a crazy idea....

Now, this is just a fantasy mind you, but I got it into my head to design my own mid-engine sports car. Something designed on the principles of Ferrari's and Ford's GT-40, and the rest. But something 'the rest of us' could have.

The main design characteristic is a mid-engine configuration with a longitudinal engine (weight distribution - low and on the centerline). So, the first step is to find a suitable transaxle.... Much searching ensues and I find many really, really expensive ones...Until I happen on an eBay auction for a transaxle for an old Subaru GL. It looked perfect but some further research revealed dismal performance figures for the GL. I am looking at around 200HP stock (think small and light) and a transaxle designed for the GL probably wouldn't handle this.

But I continue along the Subaru path and things start to look promising, no, exciting.... As I learn about Subarus, I learn that they all use boxer engines like the Porsches. Sweeeet. Low center of gravity. And the EG33 that's in the SVX is the king. The site that got me stoked is here...

http://www.geocities.com/plmjohnson/subaru_eg33.htm

The auto transmission won't do, but the 5-speed conversions that you're all well aware of would do the trick.

So I guess I have two questions:

1) Is a 5-speed AWD transaxle readily convertible to a 2WD mid-engine configuration using just the front 'axle' output.

And

2) Does anybody have any idea of the measurement of the front halfshaft from a known point (say, the front of the timing belt pulleys). A rough figure from a tape measure woud do at this point. Or really, any measurement/diagram would help.
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  #2  
Old 02-07-2003, 08:48 PM
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Why stop there. Get a H-12

I know there is a guy who did the racing cars using that config. Have a H6 at the front and another H6 at the back. Now we are talking. You can even have a AWD, AWS SVX. It can be done.

L
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  #3  
Old 02-07-2003, 09:21 PM
L1P1
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Quote:
Originally posted by Seraph
Why stop there. Get a H-12

I know there is a guy who did the racing cars using that config. Have a H6 at the front and another H6 at the back. Now we are talking. You can even have a AWD, AWS SVX. It can be done.

L
One step at a time . But that sounds like a monster.
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  #4  
Old 02-07-2003, 09:46 PM
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Memories

That website reminded me of Ron Costa's project to use an SVX engine in an amphibious car he and another guy were designing.

I have one of the headlights from his donor car on SuperRu right now. Don
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  #5  
Old 02-08-2003, 03:29 PM
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h12

Quote:
Originally posted by Seraph
Why stop there. Get a H-12

I know there is a guy who did the racing cars using that config. Have a H6 at the front and another H6 at the back. Now we are talking. You can even have a AWD, AWS SVX. It can be done.

L
Hey Lwin there is/ was such a thing or at least a true H12 I saw a pick of a H12 on the Ultimate Subie Website a year or so ago. Two Subie workers posing with it on a Sambar (little Subie truck not sold in the US).
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  #6  
Old 02-08-2003, 05:03 PM
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ya, i heard that subaru was looking to get involved in f1 racing.. don't know if it was a 10 or 12 cylinder job though. anyway, i guess it proved too expensive and the motor really wasn't so great anyway. still, it'd be @($&ing totally #(*% to take that #@(*%* and stick it the #$(%* in a !#)*** of a @(#. unless of course it was a !#(%* 2$)(* !@)$( hole.

-adam
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  #7  
Old 02-08-2003, 07:11 PM
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I'm not sure of the measerments rite now but you could also use a WRX turbo motor ,smaller, lighter, and way eaisier to modify. I still want to but one in the back of a Justy. O ya Subaru dose make a front wheel drive 5speed, just not since 97.
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  #8  
Old 02-08-2003, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Subafreak
I'm not sure of the measerments rite now but you could also use a WRX turbo motor ,smaller, lighter, and way eaisier to modify. I still want to but one in the back of a Justy. O ya Subaru dose make a front wheel drive 5speed, just not since 97.
I was looking at that option earlier today in fact. About the same HP and presumably lighter. But the availability doesn't seem to be there (at least on the web). The EG33 seems to be readily available remanufactered but the EJ20D (correct me on that designation if I'm wrong) might be too new to have a supply built up.
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  #9  
Old 02-08-2003, 07:44 PM
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You should be able to find a good used EJ20T or TT on ebay or else ware. There are also companies that import them from Japan. they have had the WRX since 94. Just wondering I assume it the egine layout your interested in and not so much the SVX. what kind of car do you plan on making mid-engine?
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  #10  
Old 02-08-2003, 08:24 PM
L1P1
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Quote:
Originally posted by Subafreak
You should be able to find a good used EJ20T or TT on ebay or else ware. There are also companies that import them from Japan. they have had the WRX since 94. Just wondering I assume it the egine layout your interested in and not so much the SVX. what kind of car do you plan on making mid-engine?
Ah, EJ20T. That got some hits that I'd not seen. Thanks.

I was particularly interested in the SVX engine because it is older, available, and among the first I saw that hit above 200HP. The EJ20T is more along the lines of my original concept (smaller, more bang per lb), but I think the SVX, at least on the face of it, seems to have a little more potential for more. I mean, it's normally aspirated to begin with and I've seen turbo mods that might bring it near a (claimed) 300HP. It's a trade-off.

My thought is to design a car around the best powertrain (for the money) I can find. So it's not an existing car. It'd probably primarily tube-framed, or aluminum construction. Perhaps like a GT-40, with that level of technology (a carbon fiber chassis would rule but my oven is not big enough to double as an autoclave )

I guess the big question remaining is whether I could take a WRX-type transaxle and just ignore the 'driveshaft' output in the rear and use the front-wheel part to power the rear wheels. It seems like it should work, but I don't know if there are any problems there.
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  #11  
Old 02-08-2003, 10:29 PM
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For your information. There is a FWD automatic tranmission from a 1994 SVX on sale on EBay Auction now. The SVX engines out do not make as much horsepower as the new WRX engines, but they are capable of much more. As noted elsewhere in here--simply replacing the injectors will increase HP significantly.
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  #12  
Old 02-10-2003, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by alacrity024
ya, i heard that subaru was looking to get involved in f1 racing.. don't know if it was a 10 or 12 cylinder job though. anyway, i guess it proved too expensive and the motor really wasn't so great anyway. still, it'd be @($&ing totally #(*% to take that #@(*%* and stick it the #$(%* in a !#)*** of a @(#. unless of course it was a !#(%* 2$)(* !@)$( hole.

-adam
Subaru actually did get involved with the Coloni F1 team back in the early 90s. Maybe 91. Anyway, the engine they provided was a flat-12, but it was really an Italian engine (can't remember the marque) that Subaru rebadged as their own.

The engine was atrociously unreliable, and I don't think it finished a race.

Edit:Found a link - and even with a nice photo of the engine. Apparently, the car never even qualified.

http://www.iwoc.co.uk/subf1.html
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Last edited by Mr. Pockets; 02-10-2003 at 08:44 AM.
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Old 02-10-2003, 08:40 AM
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Re: Mid-Engine SVX

Quote:
Originally posted by L1P1
1) Is a 5-speed AWD transaxle readily convertible to a 2WD mid-engine configuration using just the front 'axle' output.
I don't see why not. You're not really talking about 'converting' anything - you'd just be taking the engine and transaxle and moving them back in the car so it'd be driving the rear wheels instead of the front.

As for converting it from AWD to 2WD, you can just get a 2WD tranny, or just remove transfer clutch, I guess.

Still, as much as I love this engine, I don't know why you'd use one in a homebuilt mid-engine car. It's not very common, and since it's so flat you're going to have problems designing a rigid chassis around it. Why not use a more common V6 that you can get parts for more easily? A transverse V6 with transaxle would even provide you a very compact powerplant that might be easier to design a frame around.
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  #14  
Old 02-10-2003, 02:15 PM
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V6

I agree with Nick.

The VW Corrado and various Golf[Rabbit?] and Passat sedans use the VR6 engine. Very narrow angle V formation makes it really compact, and they have 190 to 200+ hp variants without turbos.

This also has a standard manual transmission. Granted, the layout is not longitudinal, but designing from scratch, you can account for this.

Joe
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  #15  
Old 02-10-2003, 03:31 PM
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Re: Mid-Engine SVX

Quote:
Originally posted by L1P1


The auto transmission won't do, but the 5-speed conversions that you're all well aware of would do the trick.

So I guess I have two questions:

1) Is a 5-speed AWD transaxle readily convertible to a 2WD mid-engine configuration using just the front 'axle' output.

And

2) Does anybody have any idea of the measurement of the front halfshaft from a known point (say, the front of the timing belt pulleys). A rough figure from a tape measure woud do at this point. Or really, any measurement/diagram would help.

1) Yes, any Impreza, Legacy FWD 5-Speed would do what you're wanting, longitudinal engine driving the Front wheels (which would drive the rear in your case)
I think the shifter linkage would be somewhat difficult, but I'm sure it could be done.

2)It is Roughly 27" from the front of the motor o the center of the axles, this is a very rough measurement, but it's outside in the snow, so I'm not gonna crawl under it right now.
I'd say there is at least the samw amount (27") of the tranny behind the axle, but that is just a pure guess, from memory.

Keep up posted if you decide to use the SVX's 3.3, I'm sure there are many of us that would find it interesting.
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