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  #16  
Old 01-31-2012, 08:17 PM
1986nate 1986nate is offline
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Re: Too much timing belt travel...

Just a thought, but perhaps you did not get the cam wheel torqued down properly?
Also, the tensioner won't come out as far as with the old belt, as the belt does stretch over time. However, it appears that it has not moved at all.
Reinstalling without the timing covers is not a problem and will be a good way to see what's going on.
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  #17  
Old 01-31-2012, 08:22 PM
SVXMAN2001 SVXMAN2001 is offline
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Re: Too much timing belt travel...

Anything's possible at this point Nate. I torqued the cam sprockets as per the manual I believe ~91 lbs, but whatever it was I made sure to torque to spec.

The belt moved very slightly when I removed the pin, but as you can see VERY slightly. But that still seems pretty odd no?

I am just not looking forward to putting everything back together without the covers. The p/s pump is such a PIA and messy!
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  #18  
Old 01-31-2012, 08:40 PM
1986nate 1986nate is offline
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Re: Too much timing belt travel...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SVXMAN2001 View Post
Anything's possible at this point Nate. I torqued the cam sprockets as per the manual I believe ~91 lbs, but whatever it was I made sure to torque to spec.

The belt moved very slightly when I removed the pin, but as you can see VERY slightly. But that still seems pretty odd no?

I am just not looking forward to putting everything back together without the covers. The p/s pump is such a PIA and messy!
The power steering pump doesn't need to be "removed" per se. You can unbolt the bracket, and the HP power steering line "holders" along the passenger side of the intake, and it allows the PS pump assembly to be able to be lifted slightly or "swung" at an angle upward and toward the passneger side to get at the needed timing cover bolts, and to get the timing covers off the front. No disconnecting lines, etc.
Hopefully this can save you some frustration/mess.
I haven't seen one only move that amount, but not every car is the same. All it is supposed to do is keep the belt tight to keep it from jumping time. However, if it is not tensioning enough, it could also be a possible cause for the wandering belt.
Before removing the current timing belt, use a prybar or larger screwdriver and put it in the torque converter-flexplate bolt access hole to "jam" the flexplate so the crank can not move. After doing this, you can ensure that nothing will move and you can hopefully get proper torque on the cam wheels, if they somehow weren't tight, or you can find out if they worked themselves loose. This is a good trick for anyone else who is changing their cam seals and needs to retorque the cam wheels upon reassembly.
If those are still tight and torqued down, make sure your rear timing cover is not missing any bolts and they are all tight. If that's not the case, then your rear timing cover may be "tweaked" or warped somehow that it's allowing the cam wheel to rub.

Edit: I apologize as I just finally was able to watch the video's. It seems the belt is shifting in the same spot every time. Inspect the belt when you have it removed. It may be a bad belt.

Visual inspection may not work either. Try putting your old belt on, if you still have it, without connecting any of the accessories (a/c, pwr steering, alternator) start the car and see if it does the same thing.

Last edited by 1986nate; 01-31-2012 at 08:52 PM.
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  #19  
Old 01-31-2012, 08:50 PM
SVXMAN2001 SVXMAN2001 is offline
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Re: Too much timing belt travel...

Nate, I bought the subaru camsprocket holder so no need to secure the flexplate. But certainly good advice for someone that doesn't. The back plate is brand new so no warping on that end. Thanks for the advice on the p/s pump.
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  #20  
Old 01-31-2012, 08:51 PM
1986nate 1986nate is offline
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Re: Too much timing belt travel...

Alright, those points are moot. I edited my post a couple of times with a couple of ideas in case you didn't see those.
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  #21  
Old 01-31-2012, 09:01 PM
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Re: Too much timing belt travel...

The difference in the position of the tensioner is because you're using a brand new belt. That's the whole reason there is an automatic tensioner on a timing belt. It keeps constant tension on the belt, even as the belt stretches out over time.

Based on the videos, I think you have a faulty timing belt that isn't "true".
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  #22  
Old 02-01-2012, 10:00 AM
92snowmachine 92snowmachine is offline
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Re: Too much timing belt travel...

count the teeth on your belt. i have gotten belts with a few too many teeth before that appeared to be the same size as the old belt until I put it on.
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  #23  
Old 02-01-2012, 03:23 PM
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Re: Too much timing belt travel...

The problem is that the camshaft sprockets were not put back on correctly. Take them both off, and inspect them for damage caused by not putting them on correctly. If you got lucky, carefully put them back on and make sure the "key" is properly in the grove before tightening them. It is ok to lubricate the shaft and key if this is needed before re-installing the sprockets. Torque them properly, and say "thank you"

Keith
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  #24  
Old 02-01-2012, 03:27 PM
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Re: Too much timing belt travel...

Quote:
Originally Posted by kwren View Post
The problem is that the camshaft sprockets were not put back on correctly. Take them both off, and inspect them for damage caused by not putting them on correctly. If you got lucky, carefully put them back on and make sure the "key" is properly in the grove before tightening them. It is ok to lubricate the shaft and key if this is needed before re-installing the sprockets. Torque them properly, and say "thank you"

Keith
svxfiles nailed it in post # 5

Keith
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  #25  
Old 02-01-2012, 09:37 PM
SVXMAN2001 SVXMAN2001 is offline
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Re: Too much timing belt travel...

Well I have taken everyone's advice into consideration and double checked everything this the third/fourth time around.

The passenger side cam sprocket was slightly rubbing against the back cover so I manuevered the back cover just enough to clear the cam sprocket. No longer an issue.

Made sure the cam sprockets were each aligned and secured correctly.

I believe my problem is/was me not tightening the top idler (closest to the driver's side cam sprocket). The noise heard in the video is considerably less noticable.

I did notice some slack in the idler tensioner, no matter how tight I made the bolt I could always wiggle the tensioner back and forth a small bit. This combined with the other idler may have together created my problem.

Even though the rubbing noise is considerably less noticable the timing belt still travels back and forth.

I want to thank everyone for their suggestions and advice it is greatly appreciated and certainly helped with solving this issue. I'll be sure to post a video tomorrow. Thanks again.
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  #26  
Old 02-02-2012, 12:38 AM
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Re: Too much timing belt travel...

Well... I tried. one more try at it... If the cam sprocket is installed correctly, it will NEVER drag on the cover. The damage has probably gone past saving the sprocket and probably the camshaft anyway.

Keith
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  #27  
Old 02-02-2012, 05:17 AM
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Re: Too much timing belt travel...

If there is still play in the tensioner pulley, then something is wrong. Either something is installed improperly or the tensioner is shot.
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  #28  
Old 02-02-2012, 02:16 PM
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Re: Too much timing belt travel...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SVXMAN2001 View Post
Well I have taken everyone's advice into consideration and double checked everything this the third/fourth time around.

The passenger side cam sprocket was slightly rubbing against the back cover so I manuevered the back cover just enough to clear the cam sprocket. No longer an issue.

Made sure the cam sprockets were each aligned and secured correctly.

I believe my problem is/was me not tightening the top idler (closest to the driver's side cam sprocket). The noise heard in the video is considerably less noticable.
I did notice some slack in the idler tensioner, no matter how tight I made the bolt I could always wiggle the tensioner back and forth a small bit. This combined with the other idler may have together created my problem.

Even though the rubbing noise is considerably less noticable the timing belt still travels back and forth.

I want to thank everyone for their suggestions and advice it is greatly appreciated and certainly helped with solving this issue. I'll be sure to post a video tomorrow.
Thanks again.
When you say "tensioner", do you mean the cast steel tubular device bolted into place with two 12mm head bolts?
Or do you mean the pulley that the tubular device pushes upon?
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  #29  
Old 02-02-2012, 05:27 PM
SVXMAN2001 SVXMAN2001 is offline
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Re: Too much timing belt travel...

Tom, I meant the tensioner itself (the pulley with the halfmoon cutout) so yes the pulley the hydraulic tensioner piston pushes on. So yes I was referring to the latter part of your sentence.

I threw out all the old tensioners so I unfortunately have no way of diagnosing if that is/was the culprit (live and learn :/)

I was however, finally, able to upload videos today POST reassembly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQ4jH7um7zQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTl8b...eature=related

I think it sounds a lot better (be honest, do you guys agree?) I have two spare cam sprockets that came off a good working engine. I am try putting them on to see if that makes a difference...
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  #30  
Old 02-02-2012, 05:54 PM
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Re: Too much timing belt travel...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SVXMAN2001 View Post
Tom, I meant the tensioner itself (the pulley with the halfmoon cutout) so yes the pulley the hydraulic tensioner piston pushes on. So yes I was referring to the latter part of your sentence.
OK, how does the pulley move?
Do you mean that it can be rotated clockwise and counterclockwise?
Or does it wobble on the bolt like the bolt is too small to fit the hole in the pulley? (Or the hole is too big for the bolt?)
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