Viper on fire pics

[Red SVX 92]

Originally Posted by Weebitob

You forgot to mention that the apex seal and rotary are basically the whole engine.

That sounds even worse, lol. Imagine if you had to replace the pistons and rotating assembly on a regular basis in a regular engine.

Also if you change the oil often and be sure to to give it the propper ventilation needed, in case of mods.

Like with almost any car, all it needs in most cases is the propper TLC to ensure problems like that don't arise. However, maintainence can be costly or there is even some problems that are very hard to avoid.

Unfortunately, it's not like "almost any car" (plenty of cars take a beating and still keep on ticking), maybe like most not-so-overbuilt sports cars. I haven't heard of Supras having as many significant issues, but cars like the SVX and 3000GT might. Those RX-7s are a killer to maintain. It's really one of those cases where upgrading is better than maintaining when possible.

[Shadow248]

Originally Posted by Red SVX 92

Unfortunately, it's not like "almost any car" (plenty of cars take a beating and still keep on ticking), maybe like most not-so-overbuilt sports cars.

But if you want to go that route, you also have to consider what the car is asked to do on a daily basis versus what it was given to do it's job. For instance...if a car is offered with an I4 and a V6...the I4 model will naturally be more prone to engine problems because it's likely a bit too small to do what the owner wants it to do, however the rest of the car...suspension, brakes, tranny...will hold up better because there is less stress on each as a result of less power being available. Whereas with the V6 model, the engine will likely hold up great, but the brakes, suspension and tranny/diff(s) will be more prone to failure because of the excess power. This is the problem with sports cars. My WS6 for instance: Bulletproof motor, bulletproof tranny (manual only), however, the rear diff is known to give up because of the way the cars are generally driven. You can tell how long the diff will last based on the owner. A weekend racer or "punk kid" will tell you "these rears suck, they break so easily". Whereas a guy who owns the car as a pleasure vehicle, and rarely races it, will say "I've had no problem with mine...XX,XXX miles and it's holding up great". Both those owners will have very different things to say about their cars. This is why I think sports cars are a bad example to use in this sort of discussion.

[Red SVX 92]

Frickin' 10-bolt made of glass.... But if the rear goes out, it gives you an excuse to upgrade... 12 bolt, Ford 9", or even just a change of ring and pinion and diff... to 4.10s and a Detroit Locker or True Trac... The only good thing about that part failing so often is the fact that you've got so many upgrade options... It's not exactly as easy to just change the gear ratios on an SVX.

Sorry for the tangent. Anyways, I think sports cars are valid examples, as long as you focus on cars that were driven hard (the way they were supposed to be). Babying a car that was meant to be driven hard (well, I don't know about you, but a gobs of power and/or handling usually make me think the car was meant to be driven hard and pushed to the limit, rather than to serve as basic transportation)... Babying a car that was meant to be driven hard doesn't utilize the car to its full potential....

Lost my train of thought (I'm tired right now.). But anyways, sure, a sports car can be made to appear ultra-reliable by babying it when comparing it to "any other car", but the sports car whould have been engineered for higher limits in the first place, so I don't see the problem with exploring those limits. Abusing it is another issue. Of course, everyone's opinion of abuse differs, so we're back to square one, I guess.

Alright, I'm tired. Maybe I'll pick this back up tomorrow.

[nordique14]

Not a good day for guys in Vipers...

http://www.compfused.com/directlink/922/

[Shadow248]

Originally Posted by Red SVX 92

Of course, everyone's opinion of abuse differs, so we're back to square one, I guess.

That's it right there. Even with my modified motor, the tranny and rear are OK, as long as you don't "beat on" the car. I use a fairly subjective definition of "abuse". In my mind, dropping the clutch at the car's 4000RPM torque peak would qualify, powershifting the first three gears also qualifies. It's unfortunate that this method also produces amazing 0-60 times.

However, doing the "street start" as I normally (try) to do (1st gear with clutch fully engaged), and just snap-shifting instead of ignoring the clutch completely, the WS6 will hold up just fine. Of course my brother is planning on porting my heads this winter, so i'll be getting awful close to that ominous 500hp mark...that will probably be the time to yank out the 10-bolt and drop in a Moser 12-bolt.

Other than that issue, i would say that this particular sports car was engineered to take the abuse it would probably be given.

[Royal Tiger]

I think you can use sports cars as a comparison. Porsches routinely get over 100k on them. Ferraris are high milage at 45-50k. And you'd be looking at your second motor. Italians make pretty cars, but for $150k and up, it shouldn't need a motor every 50k miles. Notice McLaren picked a German engine over an Italian one for the F1?

[Shadow248]

Originally Posted by Tigershark

Porsches routinely get over 100k on them. Ferraris are high milage at 45-50k. And you'd be looking at your second motor. Italians make pretty cars, but for $150k and up, it shouldn't need a motor every 50k miles. Notice McLaren picked a German engine over an Italian one for the F1?

HA...finally i'm not the one saying it

[halistan]

Don't blame them for going German, but as you also noticed, they sure didn't choose American and I doubt they ever will the way engines (and cars) are made here.

[Landshark]

Originally Posted by halistan

Don't blame them for going German, but as you also noticed, they sure didn't choose American

[Shadow248]

Originally Posted by halistan

Don't blame them for going German, but as you also noticed, they sure didn't choose American and I doubt they ever will the way engines (and cars) are made here.

You have obviously never owned a McLaren F1 , or a GM V8. So, that being said, i'll leave this little nugget of misguided opinion alone.

[Landshark]

Originally Posted by Shadow248

You have obviously never owned a McLaren F1 , or a GM V8. So, that being said, i'll leave this little nugget of misguided opinion alone.

i've owned a McLaren F1, but fortunately not a GM V8.

[halistan]

While i have never owned a McLaren F1, I have owned a GMC V8 in an 84 suburban. Never had an engine with so many problems. After having a head gasket replaced we eventually ended up having to replace the entire engine when a piston broke and a push rod rocketed through the bottom of the engine.

Now this was not a hard driven vehicle. My dad and I just used it to get supplies from the hardware store in town and we babied that thing. My father was a mechanic for the Navy and we kept the oil changed in it frequently. It had a lot of power but that engine was full of issues. We were actually more worried about the tranny going out on it from the stuff we hauled than the engine...at least until the engine blew. That kinda surprised us.

So, Mr. I'm old and I think i know everything though i can't offer any proof whatsoever, take what you like from my post but don't try to invalidate what i say.

[Landshark]

Originally Posted by Landshark

i've owned a McLaren F1, but fortunately not a GM V8.

i don't know where i was going with that - i had a few drinks in me.

I have owned a GMC V8 in an 84 suburban. Never had an engine with so many problems.

IBShadowsayspersonalaccountsofhorribleGMqualitymea nnothing

your bad experience means nothing in Shadow's World - i've owned several brilliant pieces of craptastic GM engineering, but Shadow won't allow that as evidence. why?

1) he is a fanboi and blindly buys and defends anything GM produces
2) he knows of imports that people had bad experiences with
3) getting kicked in the nuts by a car company repeatedly doesn't mean you shouldn't stop buying their products
4) Gm quality has improved, because GM said so

[halistan]

Originally Posted by Landshark

IBShadowsayspersonalaccountsofhorribleGMqualitymea nnothing

your bad experience means nothing in Shadow's World - i've owned several brilliant pieces of craptastic GM engineering, but Shadow won't allow that as evidence. why?

1) he is a fanboi and blindly buys and defends anything GM produces
2) he knows of imports that people had bad experiences with
3) getting kicked in the nuts by a car company repeatedly doesn't mean you shouldn't stop buying their products
4) Gm quality has improved, because GM said so

OMG! I really shouldn't have taken a drink before reading your post man, about spit coke all over my keyboard, and that would have been a mess to clean up. Thanks for the laugh though, you're completely right lol.

[Shadow248]

Originally Posted by Landshark

your bad experience means nothing in Shadow's World - i've owned several brilliant pieces of craptastic GM engineering, but Shadow won't allow that as evidence. why?

1) he is a fanboi and blindly buys and defends anything GM produces
2) he knows of imports that people had bad experiences with
3) getting kicked in the nuts by a car company repeatedly doesn't mean you shouldn't stop buying their products
4) Gm quality has improved, because GM said so

Hey I can do that too:

"your bad experience means nothing in Landshark's World - i've known many people who have owned several brilliant pieces of craptastic Subaru engineering, but Landshark won't allow that as evidence. why?

1) he is a fanboi and blindly buys and defends anything Subaru produces
2) he knows of Domestics that he and other people had bad experiences with
3) getting kicked in the nuts by a car company repeatedly doesn't mean you shouldn't stop buying their products
4) Subaru quality is good, because Subaru said so

and i'll add a better one...

5) JD Power has Subaru ranked below every GM division in quality, but he says they can't be trusted and that's only initial quality, which doesn't matter.

IByournotlaughingnow