Crossfire/Magnum/300C

[Landshark]

Originally posted by Noir


what? don't you both follow my command? i'm the supreme being...the ultimate leader. i have frodo's ring, therefore i am all your lord.

btw - where's Rob? i miss him.

give me back the precious!

Rob can't see your posts - you've been blockinated. oops, now he can see it.

[Landshark]

Originally posted by Noir
Actually, for the cost of ownership and repairs. I believe that the costs for repair for both domestics and imports are very similiar. The cost per hour rate ranges, but most dealerships whether domestic or import use the same fair market rates to stay competitive yet profitable.

just got my SVX inspected today at the Chynsler dealer where my buddy works - their labor is $68/hour. the Ferrari dealer is $65/hr.

of course, i get a better rate.

[immortal_suby]

Originally posted by Landshark


yeah, because it always turn into something else. stay tuned for my patriotism to be called into question next......

Turncoat!!!

[Chicane]

Originally posted by Landshark
in my experience, after driving American cars for most of my life, the last 6 years of import experience has been a more pleasant one for me. ok? everyone take their Ritalin today?

What's funny is to see YOU write that, but not accept MY experience that in the past 12 years of being a computer user, mac users are generally the smarter of the two types of computer users.

Then all of you attacked me; which is stupid, because my experience is just that, an experience. However, since I've heard of this same experience over and over, I researched it, and found out that mac users generally make more money, and a larger percentage of them hold college degrees than PC users. Does this mean that ALL pc users are stupid (does this mean that all american cars are unreliable)??? Does this mean that ALL mac users are highly intelligent (does this mean that all imports are reliable)???

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hopefully, you will finally understand what I've said about mac/pc users, by referring to your OWN arguement.

- Rob

[SubaSteevo]

Originally posted by Chicane
I researched it, and found out that mac users generally make more money
- Rob

That's cause Macs cost twice as much for what you get

[Landshark]

Originally posted by Chicane

What's funny is to see YOU write that, but not accept MY experience that in the past 12 years of being a computer user, mac users are generally the smarter of the two types of computer users.

Then all of you attacked me; which is stupid, because my experience is just that, an experience. However, since I've heard of this same experience over and over, I researched it, and found out that mac users generally make more money, and a larger percentage of them hold college degrees than PC users. Does this mean that ALL pc users are stupid (does this mean that all american cars are unreliable)??? Does this mean that ALL mac users are highly intelligent (does this mean that all imports are reliable)???

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hopefully, you will finally understand what I've said about mac/pc users, by referring to your OWN arguement.

- Rob

i accept that some Mac users may be more intelligent than some PC users, but then again, some Commodore 64 users may be more intelligent, too. what's the point, Einstein?
buying a Mac doesn't add IQ points, or back up your arguement - we've all read your posts.

[Shadow248]

Originally posted by Noir
If everyone was a master mechanic, the number of times you have to spend effort to repair a problem and incur downtime (forget cost), wouldn't you consider that unreliable?

Not if I was repairing a non-vital problem. Meaning I could do that repair at my leisure and still be able to use my car in the meantime.

Originally posted by Noir
I'm only stating that off the production line between 2 manufacturers Toyota and Chrysler, Toyota's within 3 years of ownership has less problems to repair whether critical or not, would mean less downtime and be more reliable for that span of time. If we are talking about higher mileage vehicles, then these numbers would not apply.

Again i'm not arguing about how many problems, i'm talking about whether these were really problems, or just annoyances that can be lived with for a short period of time until repair is convenient. A car with those kinds of problems is not, to me, unreliable. From my and my family's (and friend's) experiences, American cars have those dumb little problems, whereas imports have ALMOST as many problems, and they always seem to be serious. I've replaced a bunch of temperamental starters and failing alternator's, but i've only ever had to deal with one dead tranny, whereas i'm always hearing about tranny problems with imports. Just another example.

Based on your last sentence in that quote, would you say that frequency of problems between domestics and imports is equal over 100k miles?

Originally posted by Noir
I wouldn't lump sum all domestic vehicles and foreign vehicles together. . It wouldn't be fair for the manufacturer.

Lots of people on this site need to realize that.

Originally posted by Landshark
that is rediculous. depends on the REPAIR being done, not the origin of the car

So here you say it has nothing to do with the origin of the car...

Originally posted by Landshark earlier today
i'll say it again for good measure...every American car is not unreliable. Foreign cars can be UNreliable. in my experience, after driving American cars for most of my life, the last 6 years of import experience has been a more pleasant one for me. ok? everyone take their Ritalin today?

Then here you say it is based on the origin of the car?

Make up my mind already!! I'm confused enough to begin with!!

Originally posted by Landshark
yes, you are probably correct in Bizarro World.

Ahh yes, bizarro world. Tell me, how is life there these days? You living well?

Originally posted by Landshark
what advertising? was someone filming me cursing out my Lumina, Cavalier, LeSabre, Horizon, or Malibu? maybe my brother-in-law pulling his hair out with his new Gran Prix? my uncle and his Jimmy? etc. etc. etc. etc. missed those commercials i guess.

No I mean the ones specifically designed to lure people like you into the notion that somehow Imports are are just so much better built then Amercian cars, and that because of that you should pay 20% more for them and sometimes twice as much to get them fixed. Yeah those commercials. Look at anything by VW, they are the kings of image marketing...but they're not the only ones.

Originally posted by Landshark
now i know the problem - you're considering Bentleys, Ferraris, Lamborghinis, Land Rovers, Jaguars and the like in your 'import' financial analysis. re-read my post again (comprehension?)......aw, forget it. here's the Cliff's Notes: Porsche, 6 years ownership, $110 repair bill. SVX, 2 years ownership, $80 repair bill. i've never had the 928, SVX, or WRX in the shop for more than a day. my Buick had spent several days in the shop before, and my Lumina had its very own service bay at the dealer it was there so much. i remember 5 trips to the dealer to fix the same problem even. spout statistics all you like, but i know my own reality.
you don't mind having your car in the shop once a month? you are out of your mind.

Re-read my post again...(comprehension?)......aw, forget it. here's the Cliff's Notes:
1992 Grand Prix SE with 210,000 miles on it, 1985 Silverado with 190,000 miles, tahoe with 280,000 miles, suburban with 230,000 miles, two 2000 silverados which now both have over 100,000 miles on them, 1988 Chevy van with over 200,000 miles on it. 1969 Camaro - over 200,000 miles. GTP with 130,000 miles. 11 non-routine repairs between them. My mom's infiniti has it's own service bay at the dealer, it's been there 5 times just for a check engine light and they can't even fix that. This amounts to $300 spent without having any problem fixed whatsoever. WOW that's reliable.

You don't mind being without your car for two weeks and paying $1200 for one stinking repair? YOU are out of your mind.

Originally posted by Noir
I believe that the costs for repair for both domestics and imports are very similiar.

When was the last time you ordered parts? Oh man where do I start? Grand Prix wiper stalk $70, Infiniti I30 wiper stalk $350...GP MAF $120, Infiniti I30 MAF $230...GP alternator $100, Infiniti Alternator $380. GP 16" alloy wheel $150, Infiniti 15" alloy wheel $300. Even the damn oil filters! Mine is $4, her's is $7. Again I know i'm comparing a Grand Prix to an upscale touring car...but remember the I30 is really the Maxima, which is one of the better selling imports out there. I think it's a pretty fair comparison from a mechanical point of view.

Originally posted by Landshark
I remember taking our 2000 Dodge Grand Caravan to get a a/c condensor replaced at the Dodge dealership. It took 3 days and $1200 to fix. One year later I had to take in my 1995 Toyota Camry for the same problem to a Toyota dealership. It also took 3 days and the bill came up to be around $1300.

They likely use the exact same compressor. There's not that many out there. Then it's just a matter of install difficulty, and vans are one of the most difficult vehicles to fix because of the position of the engine. Compressor replacement for my GTP runs around $800. That's with the book's recommended labor allowance.

Originally posted by Chicane
Hopefully, you will finally understand what I've said about mac/pc users, by referring to your OWN arguement.

I cannot begin to express how dumbfounded i am that this argument continues. Even more so I am surprised that you buy into that bull****. COME ON MAN!!! You can't be so flaky as to believe that!!! I bet if you did research and some surveys, you would find that the users of glasses are smarter and more affluent on average, than the users of contact lenses. Does that make glasses better than contacts? See how stupid this is?!

[Chicane]

Originally posted by Landshark
what's the point, Einstein?
buying a Mac doesn't add IQ points, or back up your arguement - we've all read your posts.

I've never said it added anything. My point is that highly intelligent people TEND to choose macs more often than PCs. As a microcosm, I shall refer to all of my CLOSE friends. 2 of them use macs. The rest of them use PCs. The TWO that use macs are both HIGHLY INTELLIGENT people. Hence, 100% of the mac users (among my close group of friends) are highly intelligent. The PC users... well... I have a lot of highly intelligent friends, and some friends with a more average intelligence. Thus, the AVERAGE mac user friend I have is SMARTER than the average PC user friend I have. This is all I've said the entire freakin' time. You guys want to twist my words around so I'm saying "Mac users are smarter than PC users", but sorry, I won't stand for it. My original statement stands: Mac users, on average, are more intelligent than the average PC user. Period.

- Rob

[Noir]

Originally posted by Chicane


I've never said it added anything. My point is that highly intelligent people TEND to choose macs more often than PCs. As a microcosm, I shall refer to all of my CLOSE friends. 2 of them use macs. The rest of them use PCs. The TWO that use macs are both HIGHLY INTELLIGENT people. Hence, 100% of the mac users (among my close group of friends) are highly intelligent. The PC users... well... I have a lot of highly intelligent friends, and some friends with a more average intelligence. Thus, the AVERAGE mac user friend I have is SMARTER than the average PC user friend I have. This is all I've said the entire freakin' time. You guys want to twist my words around so I'm saying "Mac users are smarter than PC users", but sorry, I won't stand for it. My original statement stands: Mac users, on average, are more intelligent than the average PC user. Period.

- Rob

Someone quote this. Rob is absolutely right if he adds to that statement that within his microscopic realm of friends, the mac users are smarter than the pc users. But this only within the small group of your friends that do not represent the world as a whole. Your original statement isn't correct. Mac users, on averge, are more intelligent than the average PC user.

Now if you said My friends who are Mac users are more intelligent than my friends that use PC, no one would argue because we don't know your friends. It does represent the whole world.

That's all you had to say, unfortunately you generalized that the whole world is represented by your friends. Maybe in your world, that statement would be true, but in the rest of our world, that statement is false. In the other argument, you can gauge someone's intelligence by what he/she uses (i.e. MACS, etc.), what they listen to, what they have in the trash. I say you can't gauge someone's intelligence without using tests.

Hmm...I have a question for you Rob, I wonder how your friends perceive you as Rob. Do they feel that they are more or less intelligent than you for both users, PC and MAC. Find out and be honest ok? It's very interesting how you judge your friends, I wonder how they judge you.

[Landshark]

Originally posted by Chicane


I've never said it added anything. My point is that highly intelligent people TEND to choose macs more often than PCs. As a microcosm, I shall refer to all of my CLOSE friends. 2 of them use macs. The rest of them use PCs. The TWO that use macs are both HIGHLY INTELLIGENT people. Hence, 100% of the mac users (among my close group of friends) are highly intelligent. The PC users... well... I have a lot of highly intelligent friends, and some friends with a more average intelligence. Thus, the AVERAGE mac user friend I have is SMARTER than the average PC user friend I have. This is all I've said the entire freakin' time. You guys want to twist my words around so I'm saying "Mac users are smarter than PC users", but sorry, I won't stand for it. My original statement stands: Mac users, on average, are more intelligent than the average PC user. Period.

- Rob

"Ever heard of Plato? Aristotle? Idiots!"

[Noir]

Originally posted by Shadow248
Not if I was repairing a non-vital problem. Meaning I could do that repair at my leisure and still be able to use my car in the meantime.

A non-vital problem is a problem none the less. Whether you spend your precious time fixing it or taking it to the dealer to fix is not the issue. For me, time (the only non-replenishable resource) is more valuable than fixing a problem off of a brand new vehicle or a young vehicle under 3 years of age. Then again, you are younger than me.

Originally posted by Shadow248
Again i'm not arguing about how many problems, i'm talking about whether these were really problems, or just annoyances that can be lived with for a short period of time until repair is convenient. A car with those kinds of problems is not, to me, unreliable. From my and my family's (and friend's) experiences, American cars have those dumb little problems, whereas imports have ALMOST as many problems, and they always seem to be serious. I've replaced a bunch of temperamental starters and failing alternator's, but i've only ever had to deal with one dead tranny, whereas i'm always hearing about tranny problems with imports. Just another example.

Any annoyances that can be lived with for a short period of time until repair is convenient has to be a inconvenience. Well a vehicle with annoyances may not keep the vehicle from getting you from point A to point B, being frequently idle either in a shop or in your driveway makes a vehicle unreliable.

Originally posted by Shadow248
Based on your last sentence in that quote, would you say that frequency of problems between domestics and imports is equal over 100k miles?

That's a very good question. I would say the curve for the frequency of different/new problems that arise will peak and then drop over time for all vehicles. The main question is at what point will the problems peak. Apparently for Toyota's it peaks around 201. For Chrysler it peaks around 295. I think that up to 100k miles is when majority of the problems and annoyances will surface. After that it's all based 'if all parts are created equal.'.

Originally posted by Shadow248
When was the last time you ordered parts? Oh man where do I start? Grand Prix wiper stalk $70, Infiniti I30 wiper stalk $350...GP MAF $120, Infiniti I30 MAF $230...GP alternator $100, Infiniti Alternator $380. GP 16" alloy wheel $150, Infiniti 15" alloy wheel $300. Even the damn oil filters! Mine is $4, her's is $7. Again I know i'm comparing a Grand Prix to an upscale touring car...but remember the I30 is really the Maxima, which is one of the better selling imports out there. I think it's a pretty fair comparison from a mechanical point of view.

Last I ordered parts was 2 months ago. But this argument is worthless without proof. Let me be the one to furnish proof. Proof will be in the next post. I like pretty pictures .

Originally posted by Shadow248
I cannot begin to express how dumbfounded i am that this argument continues. Even more so I am surprised that you buy into that bull****. COME ON MAN!!! You can't be so flaky as to believe that!!! I bet if you did research and some surveys, you would find that the users of glasses are smarter and more affluent on average, than the users of contact lenses. Does that make glasses better than contacts? See how stupid this is?!

Thank you. We all agree with that statement. We've been trying to tell Rob that all along but he's pretty stubborn. It's either his way or the highway.....guess it's an attribute of being a SVX owner on this board.

[Landshark]

Originally posted by Shadow248
.....Then here you say it is based on the origin of the car?
Make up my mind already!! I'm confused enough to begin with!!

i am really starting to think you are on crack, or delusional about your reading comprehension ability. you obviously aren't reading and understanding.

please go back and read your post again - you are trying to relate 'repair time in the shop of imports vs. domestics' to 'my experience with imports and domestics.' WTF are you talking about?!?!?

[Landshark]

Originally posted by Shadow248
My point is, 99% of the problems i have had with American cars, I can fix in my own driveway. Wipers, headlights, or pretty much any electrical issue can be fixed that easily. This has never been the case with imports.

i missed this gem.

you have a point here - when my wiper blades need changed, i need new headlights, or my floor mats need replaced, the trip to the dealer can be frustrating. how Huck or others can replace a transmission in a Subaru in their garage at home is a mystery to me - they must be from another planet. i attempted to replace a fuse in an import once, but it ended up getting towed to the dealer after all.

[Landshark]

Originally posted by Noir


Someone quote this. Rob is absolutely right if he adds to that statement that within his microscopic realm of friends, the mac users are smarter than the pc users. But this only within the small group of your friends that do not represent the world as a whole. Your original statement isn't correct. Mac users, on averge, are more intelligent than the average PC user.

Now if you said My friends who are Mac users are more intelligent than my friends that use PC, no one would argue because we don't know your friends. It does represent the whole world.

That's all you had to say, unfortunately you generalized that the whole world is represented by your friends. Maybe in your world, that statement would be true, but in the rest of our world, that statement is false. In the other argument, you can gauge someone's intelligence by what he/she uses (i.e. MACS, etc.), what they listen to, what they have in the trash. I say you can't gauge someone's intelligence without using tests.

Hmm...I have a question for you Rob, I wonder how your friends perceive you as Rob. Do they feel that they are more or less intelligent than you for both users, PC and MAC. Find out and be honest ok? It's very interesting how you judge your friends, I wonder how they judge you.

bump for Harry.

[Noir]

sebring alternator