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  #46  
Old 06-01-2001, 10:37 AM
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<<Is this article trying to say that ALL Subarus have this passive steering feature?>>

Yes, Don. That's what it's saying. The "terminology" (passive 4 or All-wheel steer) has also been used (as one member pointed out) to describe the "reaction" of the rear suspension in some Peugeots, as well as some Citreons and, somewhat surprisingly on the 2000 Lincoln LS.

I have a few final words before I try to leave this thread behind.

First of all, for someone to become "angry" over a discussion of this sort is beyond me. I am not angry, despite being compared to a "brochure totin' tot." Futhermore, I don't believe I accused anyone of having "zero knowledge" of anything. In fact, I don't think I made any "accusations." (I'll have to re-read the thread to make sure). I merely stated my opinions and presented "evidence" to support them. It's amazing to me that someone who is so adamant about allowing people to express their opinions without censor, would consider someone presenting an opposing view to be "grilling" them.

As far as "waving R&T." I wouldn't generally use a magazine article or "brochure" as a reference point. In this case, it was different. It was not an "article" it was an in-depth, publication dedicated entirely to the SVX, its ins and outs and intracacies. The author spent time with, and interviewed the engineers and designers of the automobile (who I'm sure "know zero" about the car) and spent a a goodly amount of time in the driver's seat. Although, I know it is not always the case, as a reporter myself, I tried to accurately convey the facts (including terminologies, etc) conveyed by those I interviewed. I, in the case of the R&T guide, would have to give the reporter credit for having done his homework, taking good notes (or better yet, taping) during his interviews, and reporting, to the best of his understanding, the facts as were given to him. Worse case scenario would be that the reporter wrote exactly what the people (in this case Subaru) wanted him to write, and therefore, accurate in the eyes of "the client." So, worst, or best case, true accuracy or manufactured, Subaru was no doubt happy with the outcome or the issue would likely not have hit press.

Semantics? Perhaps. Mechanics? Maybe. Luckily, this thread has delivered some educational value. I've learned that inline skaters can't "steer" because they don't have a rudder, that "steering" is determined by "degrees" (although if I push a single wheel slightly turned to the right,[ less than 2 degrees, mind you], it will circle to the right -- just in a larger circle than a 2-3 degree turn-in), and that if you get frustrated, you simply start another thread and demand noone "argue" with you.

All in all, this discussion has been "invigorating" to say the least. The perception (sorry, lightning -- I stole your word) that anyone did not "know their stuff" was purely unintentional, however, if someone (figuratively) throws down a gauntlet, I will not let it lie. I harbor no ill feelings and have enjoyed the perry and thrust of it all. Thank goodness we all came out alive.

It Somewhat reminds me of another discussion . . . I still call them "sway bars."
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  #47  
Old 06-01-2001, 10:52 AM
lightning_8669
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<<The perception (sorry, lightning -- I stole your word) >>

How sweet of you to consider me an owner. Actually I'm just a renter.

Nice post by the way.

Sway bar eh? I always called it a "horizontal deflection redution component"
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  #48  
Old 06-01-2001, 11:09 AM
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I know you're venting, and that I said I wouldn't respond to this thread again, but I'm going to because I want to!

Aredub, being in the advertising business hasn't taught you that noone is not a word? I think you meant no one.

I don't demand that you don't argue with me, just don't do it on that thread. If you come in and ask a question, get an answer. If ya don't like it then leave...get the answer you want to hear somewhere else. You can get any answer you want out of any copy of road and track! Besides dood, how'd you like it if I came in waving a pamphlet shouting that I *know* all about your business when in actuality I don't know squat about it? (I don't and I don't profess to).

That thread is going to be devoted to people that want to know how the car works, and perhaps why it works as it does, and not R&T garbage, or brochure liturature. If you don't want an answer that doesn't fit your expectations why ask the question? It's not going to have any *mod* questions in it, I'm a purist, I use genuine Subaru products and procedures to fix the cars.

Bottom line dood, the truth is out there (x-files), you just don't or can't see it.
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  #49  
Old 06-01-2001, 11:13 AM
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I think we were

....trying to find out more about the car, right?

Peace, dood.
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  #50  
Old 06-01-2001, 02:09 PM
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<<You can get any answer you want out of any copy of road and track! Besides dood, how'd you like it if I came in waving a pamphlet shouting that I *know* all about your business when in actuality I don't know squat about it? (I don't and I don't profess to>>

Did I say I *knew*? No. I cited bona fide sources (whether you choose to recognize them, or not). If I wanted to take the time, I could probably find a Subaru Senior Master Tech who would support the passive AWS position, at least, in theory, and be willing to admit that it is possible.

Besides, if you came into my company waving anything and saying you *knew* all about my business, you'd have to wait in line behind most of my clients. They all *know* all about my business. It's something I deal with.

BTW, here's a short bio on the person you called a "salesman" I cited in the first example, and a repeat of the link to the entire article:

"John Hagerman is a mechanical engineer who works for the U.S. Army as a vehicle test engineer at the Aberdeen Proving Grounds in Maryland. John started autocrossing at the age of 16 in a Triumph Spitfire and switched to road racing a few years later. Lately, he has been playing with a Sports 2000."

http://www.advancedracing.com/grmart1.html

Yes, the truth is out there. And if I had to take the word of only one person over the many I've seen documented, Ill have to accept the word of the majority. So far, I've only seen agitation over the fact that someone disagrees, even grasping at lack of spaces between words to try discrediting, but not one shred of documentation (something that you seem to need and ask for quite often) to the contrary.

So, I'll consider this discussion at an end. It'll be great fodder for future readers, and perhaps, help them depend upon their own abilities to find "the truth."
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  #51  
Old 06-02-2001, 02:39 PM
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Degrees of truth

Quote:
Originally posted by Aredubjay
[B
Semantics? Perhaps. Mechanics? Maybe. Luckily, this thread has delivered some educational value. I've learned that inline skaters can't "steer" because they don't have a rudder, that "steering" is determined by "degrees" (although if I push a single wheel slightly turned to the right,[ less than 2 degrees, mind you], it will circle to the right -- just in a larger circle than a 2-3 degree turn-in), and that if you get frustrated, you simply start another thread and demand noone "argue" with you.

[/B]
Hey Randy

I acknowledge I picked an arbitrary figure of 2 degrees as a differentiator between passive steering and active stability assistance. It has no basis in engineering fact, but I'm glad you liked the idea.

Just as easily, I could have picked 1 degree or 3 degrees, except I am actually a Supremes fan.

Joe
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  #52  
Old 06-03-2001, 01:20 PM
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Re: Degrees of truth

Quote:
Originally posted by svxistentialist


Hey Randy

I acknowledge I picked an arbitrary figure of 2 degrees as a differentiator between passive steering and active stability assistance. It has no basis in engineering fact, but I'm glad you liked the idea.

Just as easily, I could have picked 1 degree or 3 degrees, except I am actually a Supremes fan.

Joe
So, if "there ain't no mountain high enough," "when will I see you again?"
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1992 SVX PPG Pace Car Replica 110+k
1993 White Impreza L 240+K miles
2001 Legacy Outback Limited Sedan 250+K miles
2013 Deep Indigo Pearl Legacy 3.6R 49+K miles

"Reading is my favorite Holiday"
Mike Davis -- at Reading VI
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  #53  
Old 06-03-2001, 04:56 PM
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Re: Re: Degrees of truth

Quote:
Originally posted by Aredubjay


So, if "there ain't no mountain high enough," "when will I see you again?"
"You can't hurry love, you've just got to wait,
Cos it's a game of give and take"

Just like this forum. Some give opinions. Others take offense.

Joe
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