Would you leave New Orleans?

[Royal Tiger]

Bipa, where exactly do you hail from? You seem to have alot of strong opinions on New Orleans. You also seem to take more then one stance on some of your own posts. Just curious.

[Noir]

Originally Posted by Tigershark

Bipa, where exactly do you hail from? You seem to have alot of strong opinions on New Orleans. You also seem to take more then one stance on some of your own posts. Just curious.

deutschland

[Royal Tiger]

I know that. But he seems like a transplant in the way he posts and what he has to say. I figured Wisconsin or Canada.

But he seems like a transplant in the way he posts and what he has to say

Bipa is a women.

[n00b on demand]

Originally Posted by Noir

i got your back mang......'true crime' style

tHug lyf3 y0!

[Landshark]

Originally Posted by SVXtra

Bipa is a women.

more than one?

Hmm... guess I have never really introduced myself. Here goes....

I am a 41 year old woman, married to a terrific German, currently living in Germany. Before that we lived in Switzerland. Before that we spent some time together in South America/Mexico. Before that I travelled around a lot alone - never liked the tour group thing and prefer exploring on my own. Met hubby in Philly of all places. He frequently travels for work. I was flexible because I was an independent computer consultant in Toronto, Canada, and could take breaks between contracts/jobs or even do stuff remotely (as I did from Buenos Aires for a long-time client)

Born in Toronto, to immigrants, I was raised with a typical European/Canadian mixed world view. A little on the conservative side with a healthy dash of civil rights thrown in, but with a strong sense of social responsibility that comes from being Canadian, I guess. I suppose that through my extensive travels and living in different countries, I've gotten used to considering more than one perspective. I also had excellent teachers who always stressed the need to try and see things from other points of view. I enjoy at times playing the devil's advocate, although in this case I am truly of two minds on the subject of forced evacuations. Thus I present both sides and figure that in the end there is no real "correct" answer. One size usually does NOT fit all!

If I were to have a personal political motto, it would read something like: I want government to stay out of my bedroom and out of my pockets. At the same time, I believe in helping those who through no fault of their own end up in difficult circumstances. That pretty much sums up my position. I have yet to find any political party in any country that fits my views.

I am too liberal for the Republicans, too conservative for the Democrats. Guess I should start my own Party, but then we'd all just end up with hangovers the next morning

Vera (Bipa=Vera in Cyrillic alphabet)

P.S. I fell in love with New Orleans during a visit many years ago. I've sat in the Court of the Two Sisters in the French Quarter, and have a few souvenir "Hurricane" glasses.

P.P.S. I did add a very patriotic Canadian link to my signature a few days ago. I'm just a teeny bit surprised that nobody has responded .... no comments?

[Noir]

Originally Posted by Bipa

Before that I travelled around a lot alone - never liked the tour group thing and prefer exploring on my own.

nice...a few more years and i'll be doing the same.

[Budfreak]

plain and simple no if's and's or but's i'd get the hell out and quick. i've talked to 2 people that are in my area homeless from new orleans and they said it was just like iraq there.(one of them just got back from iraq) of course i probally would had been out far before the storm hit. even if i had to hike i'd get out of there knowing a cat.5 hurricane was gonna smash into me

[ensteele]

I would have been out of there too! Even if I had to walk. I guess that I try to look at the world around me and if there is danger, I don't expect others to protect me and have my hand out. If I had started to walk, I am sure I would have gotten a ride with someone who had some extra room in their car, truck, or whatever. I would not have waited for someone to pull up to the curb and invite me into the bus.

I too have mixed feelings of whether there should be forced evacuations. It depends on where you are, whether you have food and clean water etc. Some people are sick enough that they can not make sound decisions and should be forced to leave, because otherwise they may die, and guess who would get the blame. Yep, Bush. People forget that we ARE responsible for our own actions and sometime the results may not be fair, but they are what they are. One thing that I have learned in this is that far too many people expect someone else to look out after them.

[immortal_suby]

Originally Posted by Beav

Sidebar: Wouldn't it be an amazing change if the right to vote were dependent upon a citizen's fulfillment of 2-3 hours of community service each week? If you don't care enough to do your part, screw you, you don't have the right to be heard.

That's the best idea I've heard in a long time.

[Beav]

Thanx. ^^^

Y'all on the Pacific rim have been hearing (and feeling) impending doom for years yet you remain in place.

What about a guy that leans too far over the gunwale of the boat? He knows the risk yet still does it. When he falls in should he not yell and wave for help, knowing it was his own carelessness that put him in harm's way?

Which of you would refuse to help because it his own fault and/or poor judgement? (paraphrase - let the first that has never made an error in judgement be the first to drown.)

Which of you would refuse to help if he decided it was his own fault and didn't cry out?

Which of you would have thrown a life jacket (or whatever was handy) before he had a chance to ask for help?

For me that's a no brainer. I worked one summer as a life-guard. Our training never included asking a bunch of questions and having the drowning victim first fill out some forms before deciding if he were worthy to be saved. We just kept our eyes and ears open for the first hint of trouble, did our best to stop idiots who were asking for trouble, and responded as quickly as humanly possible to those already in trouble.

We only really had problems with the second bit: trying to stop idiots who looked like they had a death wish doing silly, stupid stunts. The saving bit was easy in comparison - no possible controversy, no discussion, just do it.

That is exactly my problem with forced evacuation. Easy to say and enforce "no running" at the pool. You're still allowed to walk and swim. On the other hand, it's kinda hard to clean a pool full of swimming people. But when you have more than one pool, you can stagger the closings so that people always have a chance to swim somewhere. So why not let them keep swimming in the clean pool, and only close the dirty one? In other words, destroyed neighbourhoods should be evacuated, no question, but intact areas should be allowed to remain.(?) Hmm....hope folks can follow my analogy.

To answer Beav's questions: I was taught that if someone is already in danger, for example your drowning victim, then act to save them first, and save the lectures and discussion for later when they are recovered. Chances are they have already learned their lesson the hard way and won't repeat that mistake. It's called "learning by doing"

I try not to repeat mistakes: there are so many possibilities that I haven't managed to do 'em all once yet, let alone twice. At least life isn't boring

[Mr. Pockets]

Originally Posted by Beav

Sidebar: Wouldn't it be an amazing change if the right to vote were dependent upon a citizen's fulfillment of 2-3 hours of community service each week? If you don't care enough to do your part, screw you, you don't have the right to be heard.

You've seen (or read) Starship Troopers, then.

"Join the Mobile Infantry and save the world! Service guarantees citizenship!"

[Beav]

Just watched CNN (is there anything else going on in the world?) segment w/GW reiterating prelim instructions: "We are not to go in and take over but to assist." Then the Mayor of New Orleans saying he was po'd and friggin' mad that nobody was there to take care of them. Uh.... if you live in Louisiana should you be aware that you probably have more intimate knowledge of your surroundings than say... someone 1500 miles away?

If you live in a 'prone zone' shouldn't you have some contingency plans sorted out and a dialog with those you will be seeking assistance from? That's why Florida's responses are better than what is going on in New Orleans. We aren't seeing much coverage from Gulfport or Biloxi as they have had recent situations and have local plans and dialogs already in place. The mayor's words make me think there was little, if any, prior plan(s) in place and they just figured poof!, everything would be o.k. the next day. Doesn't anyone else see that the current responders are coming from areas that have suffered disasters in the recent past? I also have to give credit to those that have come from areas that haven't had calamitous problems but do have plans and resources available and are willing to share them outside their localities. Had this occurred in their area(s) they would have been on top of things and all of this mudslinging and finger-pointing would not have happened. Does anyone recall a plane crash in Iowa where the locals had a disaster plan in place? Their airport wasn't rated for that large of a plane and had little reason to be prepared for such an incident yet their preparedness undoubtedly saved the lives of many people that day.

So, the time for forced evacuation is before the calamity, eh? That could work with a couple rowdy poolside kids but how do you pull that off with several million people? And whose responsibility is it to enact it? Sounds to me as though the locals were lacking a plan or two. New Orleans has been fortunate, dodging the bullet so many times in comparison to its eastern neighbors, that it has taken a laissez-faire (curiously, an apropos phrase, considering the local dialect and nickname 'The Big Easy') attitude and this time got caught with its pants down. I wonder how the local government would have reacted had the Fed' jumped in and taken over from the start. I'll wager that the least little thing would have started as big an uproar, especially given that the biggest 'sell' journalism/media has is controversy.

Also worth mentioning is how many have jumped on the "Where were they the first five days?" bandwagon. When looking through the pictures on the site that Harry (Noir) first linked us to, the downtown damages were bad but not nearly as bad as what they looked like on day three when the water began pouring in. Maybe I missed something but to me it looks like the local government was strangely absent even at that time. O.K., so there are some 500 cops missing, AWOL, whatever. There are many other government employees that should also be involved in a disaster. I'm not saying that they had no right to evacuate but had a preparedness plan been in place there should have been some sort of presence by day three, especially since there appeared to be little more than severe wind damage - no significant flooding, etc.