2006 MazdaSpeed 6

[Shadow248]

Originally posted by BurgundyBeast


A friend of mine recently bought a new auto 6s sport sedan for $24k and some change.

Point me to that dealer! Mandi would be overjoyed!

[Royal Tiger]

I'm saying it's Subaru or it's crap? Adjust your screen rate. I said I'd take the Nissan. Re-read before you flame. As for my point, ford is in the midst of some of the worst quality control problems in this country. If Mazda can avoid that, good for them. But they have infiltrated, just like with Volvo. I will never own a ford product or by-product. As for Subie and GM sharing, I don't like it and have said so. Shadow, I had a Grand Prix rental for a month, and it was a nice car, but I couldn't get into the red. I hope your T/A was better done then in the GP. I couldn't get it to dim down to an appropriate level. And I said indigo as in the color, you know ROY G BIV, not Indiglow. As much as I'm not really into VW, you have to love the cool blue guages. If it was my $30k I'd get the G35x, or if I didn't need the AWD, a Altima SE-R. I like the new Legacy GT alot, but $34k is a little high for "only" 250hp. I applaude Subaru for having the guts to give us the WRX, then the STi, and a real Legacy. Maybe a B4 Blitzen will come here. No one else had the guts to do. Mitsubishi waited to see if Suby would sink or swim first. ford sells their best cars in Europe. Go cry to Dearborne.

Originally posted by PA_SVX
I will never own a ford product or by-product.

That sucks. Ever driven a contour SVT? What an incredible midsize sedan. Those things are complete bargains.... the engine sounds lovely, the suspension is perfect, and the shifter... man... that is a VERY nice shifter.

Recaro seats too.

[shelfy]

well said, dan.

[alltrac]

Chike, you post wh[]re! just kidding you buddy great minds think alike http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/show...710#post262710 For all the people saying Ford owns Mazda so what GM has their hand up Subaru ass. The MS6 will be built in Japan so the quailty will be excellent.

[Weebitob]

Originally posted by PA_SVX
I'm saying it's Subaru or it's crap? Adjust your screen rate. I said I'd take the Nissan. Re-read before you flame. As for my point, ford is in the midst of some of the worst quality control problems in this country. If Mazda can avoid that, good for them. But they have infiltrated, just like with Volvo. I will never own a ford product or by-product. As for Subie and GM sharing, I don't like it and have said so. Shadow, I had a Grand Prix rental for a month, and it was a nice car, but I couldn't get into the red. I hope your T/A was better done then in the GP. I couldn't get it to dim down to an appropriate level. And I said indigo as in the color, you know ROY G BIV, not Indiglow. As much as I'm not really into VW, you have to love the cool blue guages. If it was my $30k I'd get the G35x, or if I didn't need the AWD, a Altima SE-R. I like the new Legacy GT alot, but $34k is a little high for "only" 250hp. I applaude Subaru for having the guts to give us the WRX, then the STi, and a real Legacy. Maybe a B4 Blitzen will come here. No one else had the guts to do. Mitsubishi waited to see if Suby would sink or swim first. ford sells their best cars in Europe. Go cry to Dearborne.

But if I was reading the screen correctly you were saying that Ford sucks period. I was stating upon many reasons why the new Mazdaspeed6 can be potentially a good car and to show you that having access to a majority shareholder's parts bin of none other than Ford can be a good thing at times with giving its relationship to the new Focus RS as an example. If you want examples of good non-Euro Fords I can give you plenty, with Contour SVT being one of them. And let us not forget the Australian division with their Falcon GT and even lesser XR8. And what about the 03-04 Mustang Mach 1, with forged pistons, shaker scoop and some ample suspension modifications making it have enough power to give even the supposedly higher classed Cobra a run for its money with a price tag of 10k less. And even though the 05 Mustang GT is a bit overhyped it is still a good performer with good handling considering its solid rear axle and targeted price range. That means, don't expect it to flat out beat a GTO. So stop thinking that Ford is some low par company based a couple of models spanning for 20 something odd years, better start considering that Ford is a multinational cooperation with subsidiaries spanning many continents. Perhaps you should have come to that conclusion already since you admitted that the British branch is quite good. So have you thought that the Ford that bought shares of Mazda is not necessarily the Ford that built the pinto, US Escort, Taurus and Explorer. I admit, with the numbers that large automotive companies such as Ford are demanded to produce, more by their execs and investors mostly, there is a larger chance of turning out some lemons, but that does not mean once in a while a gem can't be squeezed out either.

And as for the Duratec V6, it is not a bad engine. In fact I look at it as a pretty good engine, with Ford Contour SVT gaining low 13s for streetcars considering they are FWD sedans. And do not get me started with what happens when you forge modified pistons, twin turbo it and give it some ample boost. It only creates the engine for one of the best bang for your buck exotics, the 500hp Noble GTO M12.

I am not saying you cannot have your opinions on automotive companies. But do not close your mind to one just because another essentially has their hands in their cookie jar, mind you it may be for a good reason. I mean look a Holden, it is as much a part of GM as say Chevrolet and they are granted enough freedom to design the character of their appearance and performance to their liking. And now GM is reaping the fruits of their benefits. S

You do not have to like the car. But that doesn't mean you have to flat out hate it and blame everyone plus the janitor because of it.

Honestly though, when I look at the Mazdaspeed6 I do not nessisarily see a Mazda. The thing is even though Mazda engineered the platoform, the engine and the tranmission. The fact is Ford took some of those things, I am mainly refuring to the engine components and turbocharger technology and used so much of it to their advantage in the WRC Focus. It pretty much comes down to me looking at it as a four door Ford Focus RS, which is not really a bad thing.

Which brings me to another thing. When one automotive company buys into partially, majority or all of another automotive company for that matter, they are not looking at what they can do to the other company to conform to its specifications as in what we can take from this company to improve our brand. This also can consequently make models the same across the board. Lets take what Ford is doing as an example. Even though they have introduced the Duratec into Mazda's midsized sedan to replace the unique Miller cycle ones. True, the Miller cycle ones are allot more efficient compared to the Duratec in countless ways, but the fact is they not only cost a bit more to make but also to repair. With them introducing a basic but still decent engine into the line-up they figured they made sedans that were less costly to build and maintain while still having some pushing power to get them cruising relatively well, which is pretty much the bottom line for the sedan market. Then Ford started looking for potential parts from Mazda to help their performance division. They found this in their 2.3l 4 cylinders engines which have been of course re-engineered and probably messaged for power a bit by Cosworth, or whatever performance company is currently backing for its WRC Focus. Not to mention snatching Mazda's direct injection technology, and some of the aspects of its AWD before they even had they to utilize it in their own application for yet again, their WRC program. Of course Ford is not touching Mazda's rotary technology since is not only mechanically temperamental to them but also marketing wise as well. And Ford is not messing any bit with Mazda's F1 and Le Mans programs since Ford is not currently faring well themselves at the moment, and figured Mazda would hopefully some time lead the way.

This can also apply to Renault's current standings on Nissan. So expect to see some technological aspects and even engine in up coming Renault models. Perhaps this can finally help the Clio Sport V6's handling problem, people who saw the Top Gear video. If any of you know some good hosting sites where I can link videos can you please tell me?

[SilverSpear]

WOOOOOOOOOOW, I love that car !! the front is awesome! especially the bumpy hood! agressive design ! but the rear of this car, UGLY! I prefer the 2005 Legacy design more (we are talking about this class, right?)
The interior is nice, gauges are ugly (color).
the car needs additional esthetic changes (like 18" silver plated wheelz, etc...)

[Royal Tiger]

What I said was I don't like ford. I have to drive one for work, and it sucks. The quality at ford has fallen through the floor. They had 2 huge public disasters with the focus and the escape. Both were hit with more individual recalls then any single model in the last 20 years ever sold in the US. ford loves you so much, only Europe gets the new focus. You get a crappy ZX4 ST. I wouldn't call a contour sweet. If it was so good, where'd it go? They are finally showing thier true colors in lousy management with the British companies. Jaguar is in the red, Aston makes 3 cars that look alike, and the new Land Rover LR3 looks like a 7/8 scale Range Rover. They get thier designers at wholesale? J Mays is overated. Read a recent Detriot design journal and see how he tries to re-do his past cars instead of moving forward. Audi A4/Five Hundred.
As for the Duratec, 201hp? Honda, Nissan, etc get more from thier motors. The Nissan VQ series is considered one of the best new engine families to hit in the last few years. Ever seen a Nissan Skyline? The RB26DETT is a technical master piece. Ask someone, who has the hottest 4 cylinder motors? Honda B series and Nissan's SR's. No fords there. How about 6's? Porsche flat 6's, Nissan's VQ's and RB's, and GM's inline truck motors. no fords. The focus ST has a bigger motor, and makes less hp then the other cars in it's class. The Five Hundred get 201hp from 3.0l, while Nissan gets 260-297 from it's 3.5l. Look at Honda's 240hp 3.0l.
I can hate ford, I'm allowed to. I also have the right to never own one if I don't want to. All apart of being an American. I can also openly critize them and thier cars. It's a right I earned. When compared to the rest of the auto industry, ford is at the bottom. I hate to say GM is only slightly better. But Japan and Germany run the auto world these days.
Also Mazda has a F1 program? ford sold thiers after one 3rd place in 3 years and over 500 million dollars later. Probably more.
GM does the same thing. Why don't we have an Opel Speedster in the US? It would be sweet. Much better then a Miata and it would give a Lotus Elise a run for it's money.
For the most part cross brand platform sharing is a band idea, but in this age of rising costs, it makes financial sense. I dislike what GM did to SAAB. If it gets you better cars ok, but where are the hot European and Japanese cars we have waited for? Subaru took the heat and brought us a WRX. Nissan is going to give us the next gen Skyline. Where is the focus RS? Where is the Speedster? US companies, don't give US consumers the cream of their global piles.
Also who owns intrest in SEAT? I believe it's VW. I'd love to see a Leon Cupra R here.
You telling me there is no market for a RS here? Look at the new influx of hot small cars. WRX, Lancer Evo, R32, SRT-4, Cobalt SS, etc...

[Shadow248]

Originally posted by PA_SVX
I hate to say GM is only slightly better. But Japan and Germany run the auto world these days.

1 - GM is ALOT better.

2 - You have to qualify your other statement for it to really be true. "Japan and Germany run the CAR world these days". American automakers trucks outlast, outperform, and outsell overseas offerings by a significant margin. Plus they're (at least GM is) catching up in the car market too. I'm telling you, ten years from now, things will be the complete opposite of what they are now.

>sigh< You made me do this.

Originally posted by PA_SVX
What I said was I don't like ford. I have to drive one for work, and it sucks.

>sarcasm<

I have to drive a subaru for work, it sucks. It's a fleet car and it's not well maintained, it's the base model, and since it's actualy a work car everyone beats the piss out of it. The interior is all rattly and stuff is broken, and the suspension is so lose! Ugh! My experience with a rental/company subaru applies to ALL subarus, even models I haven't driven before!

>end sarcasm<

The quality at ford has fallen through the floor. They had 2 huge public disasters with the focus and the escape. Both were hit with more individual recalls then any single model in the last 20 years ever sold in the US. ford loves you so much, only Europe gets the new focus. You get a crappy ZX4 ST.

Do you realize how many cars ford produces? With that many vehicles, they're going to get hit with recalls more often than marques that put out less vehicles. Why? Ever seen fightclub? A recall happens when it's cheaper to do the recall than it is to deal with individual settlements. If .05% of subarus blow up, its no big deal, subie could probably take the hit and deal with it privately. If .05% of ford tauruses blew up.. holy COW man.. you're talking thousands and thousands and THOUSANDS of vehicles. SOOOOO ford gets more recalls than any other vehicle. Does that make them crappy? HELL NO! AT LEAST THEY"RE BEING RESPONSIBLE! When was the last SVX recall you heard of, involving things such as wheel bearings, transmissions, etc..... ?!?!?! I WISH subaru had put a recall on SVXs!!!!! There'd be more of them on the road today!

I wouldn't call a contour sweet.

And I wouldn't call an impreza very sweet, but guess what? The same car with a better engine/suspension has been subarus best hit ever! You might have heard of it, it's called the WRX! The regular contour is not very sweet. It's boring, and just basic transportation.

The SVT contour, however, is INCREDIBLE. I'm a car freak. I love cars. I read about them all the time. And the Contour SVT has one really really really unique thing about it: I have NEVER read a bad review of it. EVER. Go ahead. Try to find one. A real review from an automotive journalist. 99% of them are enthralled with it. To get this much praise from people who have to drive so many vehicles it has to be pretty special. And it is. Extrude honed engine. Incredible shifter. Nice classy interior. Recaro seats. Great gauges. BMW suspension for the poor man (basically they tried to copy the 3 series). It's truly a wonderful automobile, and by saying otherwise you're just proving your own ignorance.

If it was so good, where'd it go?

This is without a doubt the most ignorant stupid thing you've said yet. Where'd the SVX go? Where'd the RX7 go? The Supra? 300zx? 3000gt? Mr2? 442? GTO Judge? Challenger? Barracuda? Charger? GTX? Superbee? XJ220? McLaren F1?

Yep. All those cars sure suck...

They are finally showing thier true colors in lousy management with the British companies. Jaguar is in the red, Aston makes 3 cars that look alike, and the new Land Rover LR3 looks like a 7/8 scale Range Rover.

What you meant to say was that Jaguars are finally reliable and don't grow a new electrical gremlin each time you fill up for gas, Aston makes desireable cars that actually sell all over the world (instead of just europe), and Land Rover is opening up new dealerships like hotcakes.

Read a recent Detriot design journal and see how he tries to re-do his past cars instead of moving forward. Audi A4/Five Hundred.

I don't see anything wrong with imitation. It happens all the time. For example, you just read someone elses opinion, and now you're using it. Should I reprimand you for not coming up with your own opinion?

As for the Duratec, 201hp? Honda, Nissan, etc get more from thier motors. The Nissan VQ series is considered one of the best new engine families to hit in the last few years.

They're also much more expensive to produce. The duratec is a cheap powerplant. You can't spend ford prices and get a lexus. It won't happen. Also, who cares how much HP they get from their similar sized motors! That sounds like the typical honda argument: My engine makes more HP per liter! WHO CARES. The Z06 might not have very good hp/liter, but it performs better than the s2000 AND gets better mpg AND has a much more enjoyable (and useful) powerband.

Ever seen a Nissan Skyline? The RB26DETT is a technical master piece.

And yet the lowly 'ford' GT will handily kick its ass performance wise.

Ask someone, who has the hottest 4 cylinder motors? Honda B series and Nissan's SR's. No fords there. How about 6's? Porsche flat 6's, Nissan's VQ's and RB's, and GM's inline truck motors. no fords.

Ask who? And WHY are they the hottest motors? Most honda engines in stock trim are pretty freaking pathetic. The aftermarket has latched onto them, and yes, with lots of upgrades and aftermarket parts, BOY THEY SURE ARE FAST! Guess what? So's any engine. I'd say the Focus WRC car has a pretty hot engine... how's Honda's WRC car? OH WAIT. They don't have one.

A The focus ST has a bigger motor, and makes less hp then the other cars in it's class.

The focus is also cheaper. Also, you're looking at PEAK hp. If you tune an engine specifically for PEAK hp, sure, on the dyno it'll look impressive, but a car with a wider broader powerband with a few LESS hp can actually be faster.

The Five Hundred get 201hp from 3.0l, while Nissan gets 260-297 from it's 3.5l. Look at Honda's 240hp 3.0l.

OMG! you're so right! In fact, all car engines suck! My radio control car develops almost 1hp from .00001 liters, we should all use those! By the same rational, since an ant can lift 100X its own weight, then they are superior to humans!!!!

I can hate ford, I'm allowed to.

Everyone is allowed to have an opinion. You're also allowed to be ignorant, if you choose to be. I'm also allowed to point out all the hypocrises and mistakes you've made in your reasoning for hating ford. And, I'm also allowed to point out that you aren't thinking rationally and you're spinnining as many things as possible in the direction to support your opinion. This is what people call 'narrow minded', 'biased', and being a fanboy.

- Justice

[wawazat??]

Tone it down everyone or it gets locked and deleted.

Todd

[Mr. Pockets]

Holy cow people. Can't anybody post a thread saying, 'hey, this looks like a nice car' without the bickering?

Sorry.

Originally posted by Chiketkd
With that much power in a 3600lb vehicle, sub 6 sec 0-60 times will be the very achievable (maybe even mid 5's).

I'm definitely going to disagree with that. Just because it is a 3600 pound vehicle with ~280 horsepower and torque, does not mean that it will be quick... Hell, I'll bet everyone thought the same about the SVX when it came out... Being ~3500 pounds with 230 hp and tq...

More importantly than the above, however, is the gearing. Take a look at what you, yourself, posted.

Type All-Wheel Drive (AWD)
Transmissions 6-speed manual
Clutch type Single dry plate with diaphragm spring
Transmission ratios (:1) 1st 3.538
2nd 2.238
3rd 1.535
4th 1.171
5th 1.085
6th 0.853
Reverse 3.831
Final Drive 1st - 4th 3.611
5th, 6th, Rev. 3.095

Firstly, it is an AWD tranny. Right there, instantly, the car is going to lose ~25% - 30% of the power by the time it hits the pavement. Secondly, the final drive ratios are too high, which, ironically, is exactly like the SVX.

The stock AWD SVX in good condition runs from about 7.1 - 7.3. With a quality clutch dump, I can see this car running a 6.3 at best. 6.5 seems to be pretty accurate to me.

Besides, something tells me the Hp rating may be a bit low - with a 9.5:1 compression ratio and 15.6 psi of boost - I bet the car is making closer to 300hp at the crank.

While it is a possibility, I also doubt that. The compression ratio may be high, and the boost may also be high; however, there are too many other factors that are not defined... We don't know if it is intercooled or not (I hope to Buddha that it is), we don't the size or duty cycle of the injectors, we don't know how rich or lean it is running, we don't know how much timing has been retarded or advanced, we don't know how restrictive the exhaust or intake are, etc., etc. Until I see a thorough testing of it by someone like Motor Trend or Sport Compact Car, I will stick with the provided factory numbers... Just like I do with all other cars until someone trustworthy reviews it.

Replies within the quotes, in italics.