Scary Experience

20+ in VA gets you a reckless.
Expect an attorney and hope they don't take your license away.
I've already got 3 friends spent a weekend in jail for it... just stupid cops.

Problem is, their just bored and under-paid. If they can't have fun- either can you. Northern VA is the worse since their just meter-maids with fancy equipment.

My Radar Detector (yeah, of course its illegal here) keeps me somewhat safe, but 'instant-on with a gun' gets everyone.

My car isn't happy unless its about 80mph... Damn SVX !

[UberRoo]

Originally Posted by svxpert

so let me get this straight? the cop gives you a break by writing you for 25 over when your really doing at least 30 over and you have a problem with that? i don't get it?

How could he give me a break if he had no idea how fast I was going? I could have been travelling at exactly the speed limit, but since it appeared I was going faster than the traffic around me, he guessed I was speeding. It turns out not to have been a terribly bad guess, but it was still just a guess.

Giving me a citation "in the spirit of the law" doesn't hold up in court. The officer knows quite well that the letter of the law is the only authority he has been granted. He'd be in pretty hot water if he were ever to be found out. (Of course, we all know how unlikely that is.) Anyway, I disagree on the merits of the spirit of the law, but the playing field is the letter of the law. In this field, the rules are clear. The officer was not obeying them as he is obligated to. He is the one in error.

I for one, know that I'd make a lousy cop because I'd only harass the bad guys. It's hard to make quota without ticketing a few harmless people to help fill the dockets.

Giving me a break would have meant leaving me alone as most officers do. Regardless of the price of the ticket, lawyers charge the same.

[Electrophil]

Originally Posted by UberRoo

How could he give me a break if he had no idea how fast I was going? I could have been travelling at exactly the speed limit, but since it appeared I was going faster than the traffic around me, he guessed I was speeding. It turns out not to have been a terribly bad guess, but it was still just a guess.

Giving me a citation "in the spirit of the law" doesn't hold up in court. The officer knows quite well that the letter of the law is the only authority he has been granted. He'd be in pretty hot water if he were ever to be found out. (Of course, we all know how unlikely that is.) Anyway, I disagree on the merits of the spirit of the law, but the playing field is the letter of the law. In this field, the rules are clear. The officer was not obeying them as he is obligated to. He is the one in error.

I for one, know that I'd make a lousy cop because I'd only harass the bad guys. It's hard to make quota without ticketing a few harmless people to help fill the dockets.

Giving me a break would have meant leaving me alone as most officers do. Regardless of the price of the ticket, lawyers charge the same.

The bad part about traffic citations is it's the only section of our laws where you are guilty as soon as you are cited. Or at least guilty until proven broke.

[svxpert]

<<The bad part about traffic citations is it's the only section of our laws where you are guilty as soon as you are cited. Or at least guilty until proven broke.>>

Maybe thats the case in your state, if so, thats too bad. Every ticket i have ever given out has a court date on it. if you want to come in and fight it, you have that right.

[Electrophil]

Originally Posted by svxpert

<<The bad part about traffic citations is it's the only section of our laws where you are guilty as soon as you are cited. Or at least guilty until proven broke.>>

Maybe thats the case in your state, if so, thats too bad. Every ticket i have ever given out has a court date on it. if you want to come in and fight it, you have that right.

Here's the deal in Las Vegas for the "court date" given on these tickets you speak of.

1st full day: Wait for your turn.. Tell Judge Guilty or not guilty. If you plea guilty, you walk over to a table, and "pay your fine". If you plea not guilty, you walk over to the table and "pay your fine".. but now they call it a "bond", which is coincidentally the same amount. They set up the next "court date" which of course will be at their convenience. There is no negotiation on any dates set of course. If you happen to be doing something frivious, like working at 9am on the next date scheduled, you forfeit. (Obvious... that's the scam)

2nd full day: Check in at 9am. Wait around. Finally it becomes your turn. You speak with an assistant to the junior assistant's mentor's second cousin's best friend to the junior assistant to the assistant DA. He/She will automatically offer a reduction of the speeding ticket if you agree to "forfeit your entire bond". If you feel you need to prove you are innocent...(figure the odds.), and you refuse, you are advised of your rights and are warned the judge may impose stiffer penalties if we are "convicted" of the speeding ticket. They then send you to a table where you set up the next court date.... previous rules apply.

3rd full day: Check in at 9am. Hope the officer who wrote the ticket is there. If he isn't... reschedule for the next day he is available in court.. previous rules apply. If !! Slim if !! He happens to have shown up, you can discuss your reasonings with absolutely no proof, your word against his, and the judges for this are never prior attorneys, but ALWAYS prior law enforcement. ALWAYS!! The citizens run about a 60/40 ratio if by slim chance they get this far, and the 60 goes to the Officer.

I know... been there, done that. It covered a span of 8 months, and yes... I lost. Just a simple 39 in a 25 zone normal ticket. He was walking back to his motorcycle from writing someone else a ticket... The rear of his motorcycle was facing in my direction, and he was using a hand gun. No way in the world he gunned me at 39. The main reason is I drive that road everyday. It's a super wide road, super straight, and it's extremely hard to keep it below 25. Otherwise known as a speed trap. I watch myself like a hawk on that road, because an officer is always hiding "somewhere" on it. I never speed there.

As soon as he finished me, he walked back to his bike, zipped around me as I was trying to pull out, and grabbed someone else. That person also fought on the same day. We met during one of our many court appearances, and compared ticket times. She also lost.

Hence: Guilty until proven broke.

How is it different in your state? Do you discuss these court dates with the citizens you cite? Is the dispute resolved in just one court date? Are you always there on the dates you have on the ticket? On the court dates, who's proving what? Guilt by your documented proof, or innocence by their documented proof? Which one requires to be proven in court? Guilt or innocence?

I'm not asking these questions in any way to be mean, I really and truly want to know if this is a Las Vegas only thing.

[UberRoo]

Originally Posted by Electrophil

The bad part about traffic citations is it's the only section of our laws where you are guilty as soon as you are cited. Or at least guilty until proven broke.

Haha. I like that.

In some countries (France, for example) the law is actually written "guilty until proven innocent." ...Fun... In the US, it just seems that way. I guess it could be worse.

Regarding US traffic law, the burden of proof is much lower. The standard in criminal law is "beyond a reasonable doubt," whereas traffic law is "a preponderance of evidence," which basically means 'most likely guilty' even if only by a fifty-one-percent probability.

I was delivering something for a company in a work truck. In order to offload my goods, the only possible way for me to park and unload the truck without blocking traffic required me to park with the driver's door to the curb. I was gone for less than three minutes. Apparently there's actually an ordinance against parking with the driver's door towards the curb. I know this because of the ticket on my windshield.

Despite having a perfectly legitimate reason for parking the way I was (and there happens to be an exception in the law for just this scenario) I was still ticketed. The scam, as we all know, is that nobody is going to take a half-day off work to fight a $10 ticket. The traffic cops know this. The courts know this. Everybody knows this. It's a crooked system, and everyone knows it. Quite frankly, it's extortion. Everybody involved in that chain, from the traffic cop all the way up to the judge, should be thrown in jail. Nobody wants people with that sort of ethic in any public office or position.

Sooner or later a post man is going to get ticketed for something silly.
When that happens, all hell will break loose.

[svxpert]

<<How is it different in your state? Do you discuss these court dates with the citizens you cite? Is the dispute resolved in just one court date? Are you always there on the dates you have on the ticket? On the court dates, who's proving what? Guilt by your documented proof, or innocence by their documented proof? Which one requires to be proven in court? Guilt or innocence?>>

i always set the date 3-4 weeks ahead for court. its clearly handwritten on the citation. if its not a "court appearance required" ticket, the citizen has to call the court at least a week before the scheduled date to let them know there pleading not guilty, otherwise, they just mail in the fine. I'll then get a notice to appear. if i'm working, i just go in to court. if i'm off, its overtime/comp time. most of the time the citizen will talk to the prosecuter or court clerk and try to get the ticket downgraded to a non-moving violation (no points). if i we agree, the person gets it downgraded, usually with a bigger fine and court costs. if we don't go that route, he pleads his case against mine. believe me, there is many ways around a traffic citation. it depends on what the violation was, you just have to know the law. usually, its all wrapped up in one date. unless he wants discovery, then that will be provided along with a new court date. i think that just about wraps up motor vehicle court 101.

[Electrophil]

Originally Posted by svxpert

<<How is it different in your state? Do you discuss these court dates with the citizens you cite? Is the dispute resolved in just one court date? Are you always there on the dates you have on the ticket? On the court dates, who's proving what? Guilt by your documented proof, or innocence by their documented proof? Which one requires to be proven in court? Guilt or innocence?>>

i always set the date 3-4 weeks ahead for court. its clearly handwritten on the citation. if its not a "court appearance required" ticket, the citizen has to call the court at least a week before the scheduled date to let them know there pleading not guilty, otherwise, they just mail in the fine. I'll then get a notice to appear. if i'm working, i just go in to court. if i'm off, its overtime/comp time. most of the time the citizen will talk to the prosecuter or court clerk and try to get the ticket downgraded to a non-moving violation (no points). if i we agree, the person gets it downgraded, usually with a bigger fine and court costs. if we don't go that route, he pleads his case against mine. believe me, there is many ways around a traffic citation. it depends on what the violation was, you just have to know the law. usually, its all wrapped up in one date. unless he wants discovery, then that will be provided along with a new court date. i think that just about wraps up motor vehicle court 101.

Then Vegas is a LOT worse. What really bites me, is I was talking to an Officer about the way speeding tickets are set up, and he... without thinking through what he was about to say, said "You know, you just have to understand, we have almost as many traffic deaths out here as we have murders.."

I was shocked at first, recovered, then just grinned... He knew as soon as he said it, that it wasn't the best argument for police writing speeding tickets. I was thinking like... How many murders do we have out here??? They must bury them pretty deep in the paper.

[wasions]

No WAY! Nick and Randy are keeping it to 10 over?

I guess that means I'll have to drive 10 under.

Actually, on my way home from work every night at 11p., I drive the whole 29 miles at -5 (50 mph). I drive through deep woods and see deer nearly every night. I can't stand the thought of bending Sir Kerm!