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#76
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Re: OBDII Mt conversion???
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Is it possible that the early OBD2 cars which still had SSMI didn't have the ECU-TCU diagnostic signals that were required of later OBD2 cars? In other words, was there a transition period where not all of the inter-computer networking signals were standardized or yet required to meet a new standard?
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Tony 1996 Polo Green Subaru SVX LSi, 168,XXX miles, Redline D4 ATF, Redline 75W90 gear oil, K&N HP-4001 Oil Filter, Mobil 1 5W50 FS (3qt) and 5W30 High Mileage (4qt) Oil Blend, Motul RBF600 Brake Fluid, AC Delco A975C Air Filter, NGK BKR6EIX-11 plugs, Centric Rotors, Power Stop Evolution Carbon Fiber Ceramic Brake Pads 2005 Gray Acura RL, 165,XXX miles, Redline D4 ATF with Lubegard Platinum Protectant, Mobil 1 5W20 High Mileage Extended Performance Oil 2009 Red Toyota Venza, 123,XXX, Mobil 1 5W30 High Mileage Oil 1992 Red Ferrari 348 ts, 82,XXX, Redline everything |
#77
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Re: OBDII Mt conversion???
Here is some data. I captured the data with the Fluke Scopemeter shown. The plot is of 13 sequential time frames overlaid on each other. As you can see, the signal is low speed and quite repetative. It wouldn't be difficult to make a small circuit that would replicate this signal. Someone with an OBD2 car with a 5 speed swap could inject this signal into the appropriate pin on the TCU connector (the one that leads to Pin 80 on the ECU) an see if the CEL stays away after being cleared.
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Tony 1996 Polo Green Subaru SVX LSi, 168,XXX miles, Redline D4 ATF, Redline 75W90 gear oil, K&N HP-4001 Oil Filter, Mobil 1 5W50 FS (3qt) and 5W30 High Mileage (4qt) Oil Blend, Motul RBF600 Brake Fluid, AC Delco A975C Air Filter, NGK BKR6EIX-11 plugs, Centric Rotors, Power Stop Evolution Carbon Fiber Ceramic Brake Pads 2005 Gray Acura RL, 165,XXX miles, Redline D4 ATF with Lubegard Platinum Protectant, Mobil 1 5W20 High Mileage Extended Performance Oil 2009 Red Toyota Venza, 123,XXX, Mobil 1 5W30 High Mileage Oil 1992 Red Ferrari 348 ts, 82,XXX, Redline everything |
#78
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Re: OBDII Mt conversion???
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Second, do/can we know whether the signal that you read on the scope is enough to satisfy the ECU? Let's keep the brainstorming going before momentum is lost.
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'94 Laguna Blue LSi ~159k.......JDM ultra short-geared 3.900 STi Version 7 6-speed w/ Cobb shortshifter, ECUtune 244,8.1mm/256,9.1mm i/e cams, group N motor mounts, '97 grille, JDM clear corners, Momo JDM Legacy GT steering wheel, apkarian's LED tails, silver STi BBS wheels, PWR radiator, redstuff pads f/r, drilled/slotted rotors, bontragerworks rsb #18, Koni/GC 450f/375r coilovers, Megan Racing adjustable lateral links, KMac c/c plates, Stebro exhaust, ECUtune 1v5, Optima battery in the trunk where it belongs. Turbo project '97 Ebony LSi ~137k #036.......Power mode mod, JDM clear corners, BBS wheels. AUX/pocket mod Now a mod "over there" ............Photo album |
#79
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Re: OBDII Mt conversion???
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I have also never had a TCU throw a code (knock on wood). When the OBD2 cars have a TCU code, does the ATF warning light still flash in addition to the CEL coming on? If so, does it still flash out sequences corresponding to various TCU codes?
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Tony 1996 Polo Green Subaru SVX LSi, 168,XXX miles, Redline D4 ATF, Redline 75W90 gear oil, K&N HP-4001 Oil Filter, Mobil 1 5W50 FS (3qt) and 5W30 High Mileage (4qt) Oil Blend, Motul RBF600 Brake Fluid, AC Delco A975C Air Filter, NGK BKR6EIX-11 plugs, Centric Rotors, Power Stop Evolution Carbon Fiber Ceramic Brake Pads 2005 Gray Acura RL, 165,XXX miles, Redline D4 ATF with Lubegard Platinum Protectant, Mobil 1 5W20 High Mileage Extended Performance Oil 2009 Red Toyota Venza, 123,XXX, Mobil 1 5W30 High Mileage Oil 1992 Red Ferrari 348 ts, 82,XXX, Redline everything |
#80
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Re: OBDII Mt conversion???
On most other Subaru ECUs there is a pin that is either grounded or not to tell the ECU if it is a manual or auto setup, so they use the same ECU which of course saves in manufacturing costs. The 5MT cars do not have a TCU in them. This is based on the info from my 97 and 98 legacys and when i swapped auto to manual in the 98 using parts from the 97.
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#81
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Re: OBDII Mt conversion???
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If that signal was taken, when the key is first turned on, then it consists of a ‘request’ and ‘reply’. You need to decipher it to see what part is the ECU’s request and what part is the TCU’s reply. You could do this by using a Data Logger to record the signal and put it in a graphic, as the TCU’s ‘all clear’ signal. Then pull the front speed sensor, so that the TCU will report a fault to the ECU, log this signal, graphic it, and compare it with the ‘all clear’ signal to see which part is the ECU request and where the TCU reply starts. As the first part will be the same, only the TCU's reply will change. Once you have found the ‘all clear” reply, you can send it in, response to the ECU’s request. This would probably need a Micro Chip, to look for the request and then send the ‘all clear’ response. Harvey.
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One Arm Bloke. Tell it like it is! 95 Lsi. Bordeaux Pearl, Aust. RHD.149,000Kls Subaru BBS wheels. 97 Liberty GX Auto sedan. 320,000Kls. 04 Liberty 30R Auto Premium. 92.000kls. |
#82
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Re: OBDII Mt conversion???
Do you know for a fact that this is a bi-directional line that operates as you say it does? Like I said earlier, the ECU pinout calls this line an "input" which implies it is one way. And the signal looks like it has a base frequency of 100Hz. That seems too low for a typical bi-directional data line. I was thinking it is more of a sequence like "data is coming", "start bit", "data", "stop bit". It could be even simpler. I have seen data links where a low speed signal is used to establish a connection and then it switches to higher baud rates. But that is not what this appears to be.
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Tony 1996 Polo Green Subaru SVX LSi, 168,XXX miles, Redline D4 ATF, Redline 75W90 gear oil, K&N HP-4001 Oil Filter, Mobil 1 5W50 FS (3qt) and 5W30 High Mileage (4qt) Oil Blend, Motul RBF600 Brake Fluid, AC Delco A975C Air Filter, NGK BKR6EIX-11 plugs, Centric Rotors, Power Stop Evolution Carbon Fiber Ceramic Brake Pads 2005 Gray Acura RL, 165,XXX miles, Redline D4 ATF with Lubegard Platinum Protectant, Mobil 1 5W20 High Mileage Extended Performance Oil 2009 Red Toyota Venza, 123,XXX, Mobil 1 5W30 High Mileage Oil 1992 Red Ferrari 348 ts, 82,XXX, Redline everything |
#83
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Re: OBDII Mt conversion???
If you look at what would happen. The ECU has to interrogate all the cars units, by request, they all can't just send their reports together. It has to be a bi-directional line.
The ECU calls all units in turn, and they reply. Harvey.
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One Arm Bloke. Tell it like it is! 95 Lsi. Bordeaux Pearl, Aust. RHD.149,000Kls Subaru BBS wheels. 97 Liberty GX Auto sedan. 320,000Kls. 04 Liberty 30R Auto Premium. 92.000kls. |
#84
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Re: OBDII Mt conversion???
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I think it would be helpful to present opinions and assumptions as such and facts as such so as not to confuse people and cloud the subject. Too many assumptions are framed as known facts.
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Tony 1996 Polo Green Subaru SVX LSi, 168,XXX miles, Redline D4 ATF, Redline 75W90 gear oil, K&N HP-4001 Oil Filter, Mobil 1 5W50 FS (3qt) and 5W30 High Mileage (4qt) Oil Blend, Motul RBF600 Brake Fluid, AC Delco A975C Air Filter, NGK BKR6EIX-11 plugs, Centric Rotors, Power Stop Evolution Carbon Fiber Ceramic Brake Pads 2005 Gray Acura RL, 165,XXX miles, Redline D4 ATF with Lubegard Platinum Protectant, Mobil 1 5W20 High Mileage Extended Performance Oil 2009 Red Toyota Venza, 123,XXX, Mobil 1 5W30 High Mileage Oil 1992 Red Ferrari 348 ts, 82,XXX, Redline everything Last edited by Huskymaniac; 08-14-2013 at 07:27 AM. |
#85
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Re: OBDII Mt conversion???
Is it not also possible that the ECU is sending a signal to the TCU, throwing a CEL if the connection is open (i.e., no TCU present)? It could be that something as simple as a resistor and either ground or static voltage would clean this up quickly.
EDIT: Regarding keeping the TCU in the car and connected to the ECU: <sl-i.net post> That may be worth something or nothing?
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Disclaimer: The above post is on the internet. Last edited by LetItSnow; 08-13-2013 at 02:12 PM. |
#86
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Re: OBDII Mt conversion???
Well mate you have obversely got it all worked out and under control. So we should see you doing this soon. I'll leave you with it. Harvey.
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One Arm Bloke. Tell it like it is! 95 Lsi. Bordeaux Pearl, Aust. RHD.149,000Kls Subaru BBS wheels. 97 Liberty GX Auto sedan. 320,000Kls. 04 Liberty 30R Auto Premium. 92.000kls. |
#87
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Re: OBDII Mt conversion???
One other thing to consider is that this wouldn't just help OBD2 folks with a manual swap but it could also open the door for using OBD1 TCUs with OBD2 ECUs. A couple of other wires need to be swapped to make it work but, if it does, there would be no CEL and everyone could use LAN's TCU. That would be much better than the tranny destroying alternatives that are out there...clicking...like a time bomb.
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Tony 1996 Polo Green Subaru SVX LSi, 168,XXX miles, Redline D4 ATF, Redline 75W90 gear oil, K&N HP-4001 Oil Filter, Mobil 1 5W50 FS (3qt) and 5W30 High Mileage (4qt) Oil Blend, Motul RBF600 Brake Fluid, AC Delco A975C Air Filter, NGK BKR6EIX-11 plugs, Centric Rotors, Power Stop Evolution Carbon Fiber Ceramic Brake Pads 2005 Gray Acura RL, 165,XXX miles, Redline D4 ATF with Lubegard Platinum Protectant, Mobil 1 5W20 High Mileage Extended Performance Oil 2009 Red Toyota Venza, 123,XXX, Mobil 1 5W30 High Mileage Oil 1992 Red Ferrari 348 ts, 82,XXX, Redline everything |
#88
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Re: OBDII Mt conversion???
Nice to see all the positive contributions, the brainstorming is great! I have two requests on data about the signal that may shed additional light on the TCU/ECU signal.
1) What happens when the car is being driven? Assuming the pics below were taken only at start-up and idle. WOT? Extreme vacuum, as in heavy braking? Or a presumed downshift, expected by TCU based on TPS change, etc.? 2) What signal would be sent if a trans sensor is unplugged (any distinct change in pattern frequency, wavelength duration)? 3)Can other circuits be plugged in here from existing pins on the harness for alternative purposes? Can we see a few more combinations of ECU inputs? I know it may require a bit of work, but think of the poor OBD2 owners... |
#89
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Re: OBDII Mt conversion???
It would also be interesting to see the signal with the torque converter locked vs unlocked and during shifting when the torque reduction thing would happen... if that's when it is?
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Disclaimer: The above post is on the internet. |
#90
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Re: OBDII Mt conversion???
I was pressed for time so I tried to grab something as quickly as possible. It is certainly possible to get a better connection and drive the car while capturing waveforms. I think it is also safe to disconnect the dropping resistor to generate a code so I can see what effect that has. But I won't drive the car with it like that. I will just see if the waveform is different at startup. I just don't know when I will be able to get to it. It is a PITA to get under there and the wiring is dense and difficult to manage.
If anyone has a manual swap in an OBD2 car and wants to try this out to get rid of the CEL, I am willing to program a chip with the waveform and hook it up. Has anyone with an OBD2 car had the TCU throw a code? If so, can you tell me if the ATF temp light flashes like it does on the OBD1 cars to indicate there is a problem or does just the CEL come on?
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Tony 1996 Polo Green Subaru SVX LSi, 168,XXX miles, Redline D4 ATF, Redline 75W90 gear oil, K&N HP-4001 Oil Filter, Mobil 1 5W50 FS (3qt) and 5W30 High Mileage (4qt) Oil Blend, Motul RBF600 Brake Fluid, AC Delco A975C Air Filter, NGK BKR6EIX-11 plugs, Centric Rotors, Power Stop Evolution Carbon Fiber Ceramic Brake Pads 2005 Gray Acura RL, 165,XXX miles, Redline D4 ATF with Lubegard Platinum Protectant, Mobil 1 5W20 High Mileage Extended Performance Oil 2009 Red Toyota Venza, 123,XXX, Mobil 1 5W30 High Mileage Oil 1992 Red Ferrari 348 ts, 82,XXX, Redline everything |
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