The new Drag Racing Star - Mercedes SL65 AMG!

[NapaBavarian]

Originally Posted by Landshark

maybe the G6 is too expensive - aside from the ones Oprah gave away, no one is buying them. i don't even think i've seen one on the road.

I heard a comercial a week or so about G6 leases, if you leased one you could bring it back any time and not be peanalizd...never heard anything like that before.

[Shadow248]

Originally Posted by Landshark

maybe the G6 is too expensive - aside from the ones Oprah gave away, no one is buying them. i don't even think i've seen one on the road.

You must live in a strange land. Oh wait...I know you do...I used to live there too. Well in the rest of the world the G6's seem to be plentiful. I see several on a daily basis just about everywhere I go.

Originally Posted by Landshark

i didn't say you couldn't, but in a *panic* when you have a second to react, you mash that throttle, and wheels spin.....

Mwahahahahahaha!!!

Not anymore!! Just mounted my new 18"s with F1 GS-D3's...no more wheelspin for me!!! About that - I had one heck of a good time tonight after mounting those bad boys...it's amazing what rubber with grip can do for cars with way too much power. I probably gained 2-3 tenths on my launch because of those tires.

[Landshark]

Originally Posted by Shadow248

You must live in a strange land. Oh wait...I know you do...I used to live there too. Well in the rest of the world the G6's seem to be plentiful. I see several on a daily basis just about everywhere I go.

i think the strange land of GM worship is even more bizarre.....

"The Pontiac G6: All Buzz. No Bucks.

Remember all the hullabaloo from the Oprah Winfrey Pontiac G6 Giveaway? It was lauded by many as being a brilliant marketing move. At the time we questioned the tactic by blogging, ”… if the only thing remarkable about the Pontiac G6 is the Oprah Marketing/PR stunt, then is the car really remarkable?”

Now it seems the only thing remarkable about the Pontiac G6 is how UNREMARKABLE sales are.

According to the Detroit Free Press, sales of the G6 are at least 30% below expectations. And six months after its introduction, Pontiac’s marketers are getting desperate to move G6 inventory by offering $3,600 in incentives to goose sales. {Hmm ... not good.} As Seth Godin has taught us "… a low price strategy is the last refuge of a marketer who is out of ideas.”

The Oprah giveaway may have generated a lot of buzz for Pontiac, but it hasn’t generated a lot of bucks for Pontiac.

i could copy-n-paste this stuff all night long, but here's one more.....(Nazareth PA must be the G6 capital of the world, because there sure aren't any on the roads around here......)

An American idle
# The Pontiac G6 is a sales flop. At General Motors, let the impeachment proceedings begin.



Photos
New, but an improvement?
New, but an improvement?
(GM/Wieck)
Bland
Bland
(GM/Wieck)
Humpty-Dumpty effect
Humpty-Dumpty effect
(GM/Wieck)
Top Headlines



By Dan Neil, Times Staff Writer

At the moment the news broke, I had written two words of a review of the Pontiac G6: "Dump Lutz."

On Monday morning, the news came that General Motors North America Chairman Robert Lutz and Group Vice President Gary Cowger were "relinquishing" their duties with GM North America to assume unspecified roles in GM's global product development and manufacturing efforts — compared with the high-profile role Lutz has occupied, this is like "extraordinary rendition" to Pakistan.

FOR THE RECORD:
Car review —An April 6 review of the Pontiac G6 included a photo of a G6 with a six-speed manual transmission. The G6 that was reviewed comes with a four-speed automatic.
Although GM's chairman and chief executive is Rick Wagoner, Bob Lutz — also known as "Maximum Bob" — has been the point man for GM policy and future product design, the Great White-Haired Father, the Man with the Golden Gut, the auto industry's most quotable and charismatic executive in a town where charisma is scarcer than banana trees.

In his 3 1/2 -year tenure, GM has lost something like 3 percentage points of market share. I was about to make the case that, given GM's current China syndrome — North American market share dropping to its lowest point in decades, and market analysts, sensing no real momentum for reform within the company, downgrading the company's bond ratings to near-junk status — someone's head ought to roll, and the most likely candidate would be the numinous white noggin of Lutz.

Cashiering Lutz, I would have argued, would be a positive sign for the street's analysts that the company is serious about accountability. Indeed, it had to be Lutz, for symbolic reasons that go beyond the car business. Of course, the responsibility is not solely his, but the culture of executive exoneration has to end somewhere, and it's not going to be in Washington, D.C.

However, given recent events, I have to revise my story. To wit: Dump Wagoner.

It was Lutz, after all, who candidly averred at a Morgan Stanley meeting last month that GM might have to phase out some of its product lines, even using the word "damaged" to describe Pontiac and Buick. In the ensuing furor, Lutz claimed his remarks were taken out of context and over-hyped by the sensationalist media, like that scandal rag Automotive News.

Wagoner memo to Lutz: Stop making sense.

GM is a morass of a business case, but one thing seems clear enough, and Lutz's mistake was to state the obvious and then recant: The company's multiplicity of divisions and models is turning into a circular firing squad. How can four nearly identical minivans — one each for Pontiac, Buick, Chevrolet and Saturn — be anything but a waste of resources? Ditto the Four Horsemen of Suburbia, the Buick Rainier, Chevrolet TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy and Saab 9-7X. How does the Pontiac Montana minivan square with Pontiac as the "Excitement" division? Why, exactly, is GMC on this Earth?

For a company so utterly devoted to each of its 11 brands — counting offshore badges such as Opel, Holden, Vauxhall — the overarching strategy seems to be to flatten the distinctiveness out of all of them in the name of global efficiencies. Take Saab, poor Saab. The new 9-3s will be built in Russelsheim, Germany, alongside Opel Vectras. The 9-2X is a badge-engineered Subaru WRX. The 9-7X is a Chevy Trailblazer built in the Nordic enclave of Moraine, Ohio.

Other recent Wagoner miscues:

GM utterly missed the boat on hybrid gas-electric technology and lobbied Congress not to raise fuel-economy standards on the grounds that meeting higher standards would divert funds from critical research in the ultimate propulsion technology, hydrogen fuel cells — an argument that, shall we say, lacks authenticity. Today, GM has no hybrids of consequence on the street, while rivals Toyota and Honda are selling as many as they can build.

As part of a product reorganization, GM announced last month that it would speed up development of new SUVs and trucks in the pipeline and slow-walk development of rear-wheel-drive Zeta car projects. So, let's see: At a time when SUV sales are cliff-diving, GM proposes to speed up big SUV development and 86 the mid-size, rear-drive future products?

This reallocation of deck chairs seems pointless when the real problem is the massive overhead of a company that cannot find the will to downsize. Capitalism, remember, is creative destruction.

However, the best case for a putsch in GM's Renaissance Center offices is this: The cars aren't selling.

Honestly, it takes some sort of perverse genius to make the Grand Am, the car the Pontiac G6 replaces, look like a showroom winner, but the G6 is selling at about half the volume of the unloved and unlovely Grand Am, which dates to the 1980s. Even a multimillion-dollar giveaway of G6s on "Oprah" in September wasn't enough to fire up sales of this car.

Six months into its life, the G6 has thousands of dollars on its nose and analysts are calling it a flop. Last month, Pontiac offered more incentive money as a percentage of MSRP than any other brand, a full 16%, according to Edmunds.com.

The G6 is not an awful car. It's entirely adequate. But plainly, adequate is not nearly enough.

Exterior styling: The G6 sedan, based on the same stretched-wheelbase platform as the Malibu Maxx, has its wheels in the right place, nicely quadratic and corner-wise. There are a few odd proportions that add up to a kind of visual consternation: The car's front tapers around the headlamps like a school eraser; the rear deck is more a rear bustle, with an arm's length of sheet metal over the rear wheel wells; and wheels and tires themselves seem small when, at 17 inches in the GT package, they aren't really.

Meanwhile, the detailing of the bodywork makes the skin of the car look eggshell-thin. I wonder how many buyers look at this car and wonder what is behind the billboard?

Interior styling: The GT comes with comfortable leather-lined bucket seats, nicely bolstered with heaters. I like the soft grip on the hand brake. That exhausts my praise for the interior.

The center console is a plastic fantastic with the now-familiar stacked boxes of the audio head and climate controls, and we know what comes with familiarity. This is pretty much a style-free zone in a larger moor of monochromatic plastic and vinyl.

The G6 does have a couple of fun features, both optional: an oversized moon roof that folds back in sections so that, lined up on the roof, the car looks solar-powered; and a remote starting function.

Some options are less fun: Side-impact and curtain air bags, four-wheel anti-lock brakes and traction control are all cost-extra options on the base model.

Performance: The GT model I drove had a 3.5-liter iron-block V6 under the hood, good for 200 horsepower and no surprises at all. And — though I can't believe I'm writing this sentence in 2005 — this pushrod six is mated to a four-speed automatic transmission. It is because of this powertrain that the phrase "thrashy and unrefined" has become the hackneyed cliché that it has.

The electric steering is numb and oddly weighted. Though I thought the ride was very nice, the handling is pushier than a mortgage-refinance telemarketer. The car has zero appetite for hard driving. You want excitement from the "Excitement" division? Try to get this thing to turn in a sharp corner.

Bah.

This is an uncompetitive product, an assertion borne out not by my say-so but by sales numbers. When ballclubs have losing records, players and coaches and managers get their walking papers.

At GM, it's time to sweep the dugout.


yup, the G6 sounds like a sales success! sounds like a great car, too.

[Shadow248]

I've always thought that Wagoner should go. Not that Lutz is really fixing the company, but he has brought alot of gread ideas to the table. Wagoner has been there through the entire struggle, and has been unable to change things. Lutz has made noticeable differences in only three years. Sure he hasn't fixed all the problems, but that will probably never happen. In a world where every company struggles to hold it's share, it's no surprise that the big guns are losing some of their ground. The automotive world is changing. Quality across the board is increasing, prices continue to rise exponentially, and all this in a very unstable world economy. Guess what? No one is having an easy time.

But it would appear to me, despite all the articles, that the G6 is selling well. In my travels, I see more G6's than I do new Accords. But in an economy where people are afraid to spend money, selling anything is tough. Let alone something with a $25,000 price tag.

On a side note, I love how they call every car that doesn't immediately sell like porn a "sales flop". The G6 hasn't even been out for a year. In fact, the full line hasn't even been released yet...the coupe is just now shipping and the GTP has another month or so before it hits lots. Give it time, and just like the new Malibu, it will do fine.

[Landshark]

Originally Posted by Shadow248

I've always thought that Wagoner should go. Not that Lutz is really fixing the company, but he has brought alot of gread ideas to the table. Wagoner has been there through the entire struggle, and has been unable to change things. Lutz has made noticeable differences in only three years. Sure he hasn't fixed all the problems, but that will probably never happen. In a world where every company struggles to hold it's share, it's no surprise that the big guns are losing some of their ground. The automotive world is changing. Quality across the board is increasing, prices continue to rise exponentially, and all this in a very unstable world economy. Guess what? No one is having an easy time.

But it would appear to me, despite all the articles, that the G6 is selling well. In my travels, I see more G6's than I do new Accords. But in an economy where people are afraid to spend money, selling anything is tough. Let alone something with a $25,000 price tag.

On a side note, I love how they call every car that doesn't immediately sell like porn a "sales flop". The G6 hasn't even been out for a year. In fact, the full line hasn't even been released yet...the coupe is just now shipping and the GTP has another month or so before it hits lots. Give it time, and just like the new Malibu, it will do fine.

its been out long enough to be a sales flop.

Accords are everywhere. what the hell goes on in Nazareth, Pa - is it like Bizarro World or something? there must be a large chemical or nuclear plant near there - am i right?

[NapaBavarian]

Drag racing is like bad sex, it's all over in a few seconds...

[Shadow248]

Originally Posted by Landshark

its been out long enough to be a sales flop.

I disagree. A car's stigma is not created in the first year of production. Look at the Corvette for instance. It began as an odd little underpowed roadster that no one wanted, and now it's an American Icon. Scion got a bad start, but now their cars are selling pretty well. There are plenty of examples like this. Bottom line is the G6 is a stylish car loaded with lots of great stuff, and is built as well, if not better, than any Honda or Toyota. It will catch on soon enough. In the meantime, lots of people are going to get smokin deals with these rebates.

Originally Posted by Landshark

Accords are everywhere. what the hell goes on in Nazareth, Pa - is it like Bizarro World or something? there must be a large chemical or nuclear plant near there - am i right?

Well if you drove through the TOWN of Nazareth, you would probably think so. I try to stay away from downtown. It is a strange area. A defunct looking little town with very expensive suburban sprawl surrounding it. I live about 5 miles from downtown. It's nice and quiet here thankfully. But I still can't wait to get the hell out of here and head south.

Originally Posted by NapaBavarian

Drag racing is like bad sex, it's all over in a few seconds...

Actually i'd say drag racing is the opposite of sex.

In drag racing, it's all over in a few seconds if your GOOD. The opposite of sex.

[NapaBavarian]

Originally Posted by Shadow248

Actually i'd say drag racing is the opposite of sex.

In drag racing, it's all over in a few seconds if your GOOD. The opposite of sex.

It is still over... Great for braging rights if that is your thing

[Landshark]

Originally Posted by Shadow248

I disagree. A car's stigma is not created in the first year of production. Look at the Corvette for instance. It began as an odd little underpowed roadster that no one wanted, and now it's an American Icon. Scion got a bad start, but now their cars are selling pretty well. There are plenty of examples like this. Bottom line is the G6 is a stylish car loaded with lots of great stuff, and is built as well, if not better, than any Honda or Toyota. It will catch on soon enough. In the meantime, lots of people are going to get smokin deals with these rebates.

first year of production??? its a frickin' Grand Am with a new name, despite all the "first-ever G6" marketing B.S. the new Legacy is a totally different car from last year, and sales are up 31% from last years Legacy. if they changed the Legacy name to the "L4", sales would still be good. GM just has its head up its arse - its a boring car. people are starting to not like boring cars anymore. Scion is doing well because compared to a G6, a Scion tC looks like something you'd want to actually purchase.

[NapaBavarian]

Originally Posted by Landshark

first year of production??? its a frickin' Grand Am with a new name, despite all the "first-ever G6" marketing B.S. the new Legacy is a totally different car from last year, and sales are up 31% from last years Legacy. if they changed the Legacy name to the "L4", sales would still be good. GM just has its head up its arse - its a boring car. people are starting to not like boring cars anymore. Toyota is doing well because compared to a G6, a Toyota tC looks like something you'd want to actually purchase.

Wouldn't mind having an xB, small foot print and lots of room inside, not to mention cheap and built by Toyota

[Noir]

Mullets are cool.

[Landshark]

Originally Posted by Noir

Mullets are cool.

G6's popular down there in Mullet country?

[Shadow248]

Originally Posted by Landshark

first year of production??? its a frickin' Grand Am with a new name, despite all the "first-ever G6" marketing B.S.

Well i'm sorry that you know nothing about the G6. So i'll give you a lesson. The G6 shares NOTHING...and I mean NOTHING with the Grand Am. Not even a headlight bulb. The G6 is build using the new "platform" style architecture, the Grand Am was a classic unibody. Everything in the G6 is new...from the underpinnings, to the new V6, to the Bentley (Feoria or something like that) designed interior. Calling the G6 a Grand Am is like calling the SVX an XT.

Originally Posted by Landshark

the new Legacy is a totally different car from last year, and sales are up 31% from last years Legacy. if they changed the Legacy name to the "L4", sales would still be good. GM just has its head up its arse - its a boring car. people are starting to not like boring cars anymore.

The funny part is, your "31%" sales increase still means that Subaru is selling less than half the number of legacies that Pontiac is selling of the G6's. And you call the G6 a sales flop. Shouldn't that mean the Legacy is too? Of course not, because were talking about different production levels. But it puts it in perspective.

Originally Posted by Landshark

Scion is doing well because compared to a G6, a Scion tC looks like something you'd want to actually purchase.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Oh my god I can't stop laughing.

That was a joke right?

Scions look like the product of some 6 year old's wish to make his toys big. The G6 looks like a modern sedan, the TC looks like father weeble's car.

Originally Posted by NapaBavarian

Wouldn't mind having an xB, small foot print and lots of room inside, not to mention cheap and built by Toyota

Ever wonder why they always make sure you know it's "built by Toyota"? Check this out...

http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=7086

Scroll down to the "2004 IQS Results" and notice where Scion is on the list. Fourth to last...that's 34 out of 37. Seems to me that if Toyota does not want to disgrace their image, they should probably cut the "built by Toyota" line, or they may start getting a bad rep.

[NapaBavarian]

Originally Posted by Shadow248

http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=7086

I wonder who builds Hummer, sucks to be them, dead last

[Shadow248]

Originally Posted by NapaBavarian

I wonder who builds Hummer, sucks to be them, dead last

HAHA I knew i'd hear about that one. Actually Hummer is not BUILT buy GM...just owned by them. I guess it's alot like Scion's relationship with Toyota. They are definetly related, but judging by the quality level...it's a distant resemblance.