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  #31  
Old 12-14-2004, 12:55 PM
Shadow248 Shadow248 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by rmjensen
No - but I must say I like the Chevy Cobalt -> Corvette commercials the best - I think they're funny. Have you seen the pricetag for the cobalt though? They're smokin crack.
Why? The Cobalt SS will top out at about $21,000. The 2003 Cavalier LS was $20,200 and sold well. The Dodge Neon SRT-4 is over $20,000 and doesn't come with simple things like full power windows, a good stereo, etc. The Cobalt SS even has leather. It's a bargain really.


Quote:
Originally posted by Landshark
well, i've you're looking for a bargain, then the Vette is your car, until it comes time to sell. the Porsche will hold its value, unlike the plummeting Vette. considering the Vette has an 85hp advantage over the 911, it SHOULD have beat it by far more. its apples to oranges. compare pricetags, Vette wins. compare the 911 Turbo (with comparable horsepower to the Vette), it will lose hard. there's a reason you're going to pay more for the Porsche, and that will become apparent 20 years down the road.
You don't have to cry about it Alan, take it like a man.

Bottom line...the vette is cheaper and still won the comparo. AND it will hold it's value just as much as the porsche, not to mention it will cost alot less to fix all around.

Quote:
Originally posted SVXer95
by BMWs seem to handle crappy roads and still have no gap.
Sure, if I put $10,000 (about the difference in price between my car new and a comparable BMW) into my suspension, I could say the same and more. In fact, i could do it with less than half that. The Caddy CTS and STS have almost ZERO wheel gap and ride better than most BMWs, IMO.

Quote:
Originally posted by upnygimp
Nothing will ever take the place of the GT. The Z06 is nice and all, but its not a GT. Much more heritage behind it, much more style. I do like the Z06, and its an incredibly solid car, but it just doesnt evoke the same feelings that the GT does.
That's a matter of opinion. I feel exactly the opposite of the way you do. The GT40 was a rough, very focused car designed for a single purpose. At that, it excelled. The Corvette has excelled at much more than just being a fast car. It's also been in full production every year since it's inception. Stylewise, the GT is nothing special. Seems to me like there's no contest. But then that is just my opinion.

Last edited by Shadow248; 12-14-2004 at 01:00 PM.
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  #32  
Old 12-14-2004, 01:06 PM
elvis elvis is offline
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For the record, I'm not dead.

I also happen to have a Mustang, a 2001 Cobra convertible to be exact. I gotta tell ya, its probably the biggest piece of crap I've ever driven.

Clutch fork twice (not a disk,bearing or "bad-stick-driver item", but the fork), both cylinders for the convertible top, the HVAC controls, blower motor, right-front shock, alternator, the little rubber seal thingy between the body and rear window (it's rivet-ed on!), and a fog light. All before the warranty expired at 36000. Oh yeah, and the stock tires needed to be replaced at 20k (never rotated, the all wore evenly)

I don't care how good the new one looks, I'd rather push an SVX than drive another Mustang. Well, maybe one with a blower

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  #33  
Old 12-14-2004, 01:50 PM
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shadow... why do you always have to shoot yourself in the foot when making points??

first of all, landshark made a good point. the corvette will (hopefully) always be the less expensive, more for your $$ kinda car. but comparing performance.. the porsche won. deal
and i'd like to see numbers on the corvettes holding there value.. i just saw a 93 vette for sale for like 8 grand.

second of all, the cobalt = grocery getter. yeah, you'll get some people wanting it for performance, but think about the demographic buying those cars. so they'll buy the faster srt4...
your arguement of "the cobalt will have more options" is negated by the fact that its slower. where as the cobalt will be faster than other cars, that have more options.. its all give and take. doesn't make one car "THE BEST" vs others
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  #34  
Old 12-14-2004, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Shadow248
You don't have to cry about it Alan, take it like a man.

Bottom line...the vette is cheaper and still won the comparo. AND it will hold it's value just as much as the porsche, not to mention it will cost alot less to fix all around.


who's crying - if you're on a budget, then the Corvette is for you. if you are talking which is the better car, you know the answer. price aside, put it up against the 911 Turbo, which has an equivalent amount of power, and see who wins in the performance categories.

what's the next comparison, a BMW M5 vs. a Dodge Stratus? they are both sedans, right?
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  #35  
Old 12-14-2004, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by drivemusicnow
shadow... why do you always have to shoot yourself in the foot when making points??
because he is our unofficial GM fanboi.

my point was, the comparison was stupid. a 400hp Vette vs. a 315hp 911. i think the next comparo should be the 360hp Ford Lightning vs. the 175hp Chevy Colorado.

late '80's 911Turbos are $30K+, how much are Vettes, like $5k? keep dreamin' if you think that C6 is gonna be worth much in 10 years or so. come spring, they'll be a dime-a-dozen around here.
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  #36  
Old 12-14-2004, 02:43 PM
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At least Corvettes don't have rust problems
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  #37  
Old 12-14-2004, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by elvis
At least Corvettes don't have rust problems
no, only spidercracks in the 'glass.
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  #38  
Old 12-14-2004, 03:56 PM
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What we've got here, is a good debate. Personally, I prefer the Mustang over the Vette. I really hate the new styling of the Corvette. The rear end and the headlights really turn me off. The C5 generation is much better, in my opinion.

To the guy who said Ford is crap because they're styling toward retro:

Yeah, they are and it works. Look at when Chrysler released the PT Cruiser. They couldn't keep it in the showrooms. The Thunderbird was a good seller for Ford as well. Now, the Vette still remains very, very similar to the original 60's Corvette. Same shape and styling. The new Mustang has sold well thus far and probably will because people like the retro styling of the car.

Even Dodge is getting on. The new Charger looks similar to the old charger with the grille and paint schemes. It's still a four-door Magnum with a trunk versus the stationwagon.

And the ultimate retro styling modern auto? The VW Beetle. Very good seller.

Point is: it works.

As for sports cars, for the average middle income family who can afford a sports car, the Mustang is a great value. Lots of power yet it's still versatile enough to run groceries or errands. How many poeple would really run errands with a Ferrari 360 Modena or Ford GT and then leave the car parked in the lot while they're in the store?
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  #39  
Old 12-14-2004, 05:00 PM
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Subaru should go retro with 360 styling.
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  #40  
Old 12-14-2004, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Landshark
Subaru should go retro with 360 styling.
Go all medieval on Subaru design! Air-cooled 2 cylinder POWAH!

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  #41  
Old 12-14-2004, 11:35 PM
Shadow248 Shadow248 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by drivemusicnow
first of all, landshark made a good point. the corvette will (hopefully) always be the less expensive, more for your $$ kinda car. but comparing performance.. the porsche won. deal
and i'd like to see numbers on the corvettes holding there value.. i just saw a 93 vette for sale for like 8 grand.
There are two Vettes for sale in my local paper...an '85 with 40k for $15k and a '92 with 50k for $26k. As with any car, there are real cheapos and there are real rare ones that fetch alot. You'd probably have to pay someone to take an '84 Vette, but a 91 ZR-1 would fetch nearly 100g's. The C5 targas (97-99)are still pulling low-mid $30's, which is great value for a car that only sold for $42-$45 to begin with. On the flipside, i've seen plenty of Porsches under 10g's around here.

Quote:
Originally posted by Landshark
who's crying - if you're on a budget, then the Corvette is for you. if you are talking which is the better car, you know the answer. price aside, put it up against the 911 Turbo, which has an equivalent amount of power, and see who wins in the performance categories.
The point is that Porsche could barely do better than the Vette with significantly more money. Go ahead and compare it with the turbo. That only makes Porsche look worse. Then add in the fact that the ZO6 will flat out spank the turbo in every aspect, and STILL be like half the price...well...i can't really think of a word for that. Not only is the Vette as capable for much less money, but it also is more comfortable all around. It's making the "premium" sports cars feel really inadequate these days.

Quote:
Originally posted by Landshark
late '80's 911Turbos are $30K+, how much are Vettes, like $5k? keep dreamin' if you think that C6 is gonna be worth much in 10 years or so. come spring, they'll be a dime-a-dozen around here.
A 1988 Porsche 911 Carrera is now worth $16,900, a 1988 Corvette is now worth $10,060 (both cars with 50k). Considering the Porsche sold for...what...double what the Vette did originally? (Don't know the original price of the 911 but the vette should have been around 30k), looks like the Vette holds value just as well as the porsche. Go ahead and look it up yourself. Those were both Blue Book values.

BTW, if you really can get a Vette in your area THAT cheap, please let me know where exactly. I want one.

Quote:
Originally posted by Sidewinder
Point is: it works.
Eh, it does and it doesn't. So far, surprisingly, it's worked better for GM than for Ford. The Thunderbird was a flop, so i'm surprised they're trying it on the stang. Obviously the stang won't be lost because of it, however it could suffer major sales loss. Chevy's SSR on the other hand is thriving, and so is that stupid Beetle. Who knows the pattern to why some work and some don't. That's what they pay the designers for.

Last edited by Shadow248; 12-14-2004 at 11:39 PM.
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  #42  
Old 12-15-2004, 05:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Shadow248 You'd probably have to pay someone to take an '84 Vette, but a 91 ZR-1 would fetch nearly 100g's.
wow, you are on the crack. a search on Autotrader shows a '91 ZR1 Vette (with only 14k miles no less) 62 miles away from me for $33.5k. not quite $100k, is it?
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...or=&cardist=62

Quote:
The point is that Porsche could barely do better than the Vette with significantly more money.
no, the point is, as i've said several times already (do you read the posts?), is that the Corvette is a bargain, however, with a 400hp V8 it beats a 315hp H-6 by only 2 tenths of a second in both 0-60 and the 1/4 mile. are you with me so far? here's what you fail to understand: the comparison is stupid. they are two different cars with two different design philosophies that would never compete in the marketplace.

Quote:
Then add in the fact that the ZO6 will flat out spank the turbo in every aspect, and STILL be like half the price...well...i can't really think of a word for that.
how do you figure? the 2006 911T will have 450hp, 3.7sec 0-60. the 2006 Z06 will have 500hp, 3.8sec 0-60. it equals or beats the Z06 in the all-important redlight-to-redlight drag race while being down 50hp.

i've driven Corvettes, and i've driven Porsches. i know why the Corvette is cheap, and why the Porsche is expensive.

just be glad there IS a Corvette, because GM nearly blew the C5 program due to the w-body disaster back in the late 80's.
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  #43  
Old 12-15-2004, 07:30 AM
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Royal Tiger Royal Tiger is offline
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Sidewinder, you might want to rethink the T-Bird comment. They sold to the intial demand, people who just had to have one, then demand dried up. Nobody wants them anymore and production is scheduled for termination. The PT Cruiser sold like hot cakes, then Chrysler got greedy and started making them 3 shifts a day. The result? $5k give backs to get them off the lots. You can't oversell niche vehicles.
As for Vette vs 911, I agree with Alan in that it's apples to oranges, and with shadow that in pure bang for buck the Vette knows no competitor.
As for the GT ford, it is featured in Automobile Magazine with the SLR McLaren, Lambo, and Carrera GT. The Porsche was rated best overall (no surprise) and they liked the ford alot. It cost ALOT less then the other three, but even at $140k ford quality blows! The roof/door opening leaked water onto the seats. hahahahahahahah
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  #44  
Old 12-15-2004, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Landshark
wow, you are on the crack. a search on Autotrader shows a '91 ZR1 Vette (with only 14k miles no less) 62 miles away from me for $33.5k. not quite $100k, is it?
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.j...lor=&cardist=62
My drug habits are none of your business.

I said the ZR1 COULD fetch 100g's. Besides, the example you gave me has two accidents on it's record. You'll have to do better than that.

Quote:
Originally posted by Landshark
no, the point is, as i've said several times already (do you read the posts?), is that the Corvette is a bargain, however, with a 400hp V8 it beats a 315hp H-6 by only 2 tenths of a second in both 0-60 and the 1/4 mile. are you with me so far? here's what you fail to understand: the comparison is stupid. they are two different cars with two different design philosophies that would never compete in the marketplace
I'll agree with you that the Vette's real strong point is it's price. But both it and the Porsche are two seat, high performance sports cars. How much closer do they have to be to be "legally" compared?

The Z06's computer estimated 0-60 was 3.6 seconds. That's based on the factory 515hp rating. As with all GM sports cars, we expect the Vette to be grossly underrated - the 400hp rated Z51 puts out 380-390 at the wheels, so it should be rated more in the 420-430hp range. That will have to wait until the ZO6 comes out, but following the trend, we should see 510hp or better to the WHEELS...which would be nearly 550hp crank. I'm betting 0-60 in 3.5.

I'm not trying to say that the Porsche and the Vette are the exact same car at heart. I'll agree they really are quite different. But I don't see a problem with comparing the two...they were built with the same mission - performance and style. The 911 and Vette have been compared on manyp occasions in the past. Even C&D said they've been doing it for 20 years.

Quote:
Originally posted by PA_SVX
I agree with Alan in that it's apples to oranges, and with shadow that in pure bang for buck the Vette knows no competitor.
AHH there's always an excuse. It's fun to watch Porsche fans cry after their hero was outdone by a chevy. To me, it's expected. To you, it's impossible? Get used to it.

BTW, using the "bang for the buck" argument only makes the Porsche look worse. Showing that you are getting no more for alot more money.
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  #45  
Old 12-15-2004, 10:13 AM
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Royal Tiger Royal Tiger is offline
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Shadow, I think you missed my point. I was agreeing with you on the price issue. That is not an excuse, just a truth, you get more performance for the money with the Vette. As for the two cars both being 2 seat sports cars, what Allen was saying was that they are shopped by different clientel. Most 911 people never looked at the Vette regardless of performance. just as most Vette buyers never considered the 911, even if they could afford it.
On a side note, I wish Porsche hadn't cancelled a resurection of the 928 style front engine V-8 GT. A new one with the Cayenne Turbo motor would be stellar!!!!
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