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#871
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Re: SVX Engine cooling "Again & Again"
You two guys have it all figured out so you cool the engine, you both haven't got a bloody clue.
Tony
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1995 - SVX 700,000 K Mine, DMS Struts to lift car 2in. Tyres Wrangler Silent Armor 235/70R16, PBR Radiator. 6 speed with DCCD and R180 rer diff, Heavy duty top strut mounts front and rear. Speedo correction box fitted. New stero (gave up on the old one). Back seat removed and 2 spare tyres fitted for desert driving. ECUTune SC sitting in the box for the next SVX. 1992 - SVX 255 K Wife (Want to stay Married so not allowed to fit SC) 1992 - SVX Pearl with black roof race car roll cauge etc ready to race. Ex Tasman Targa car. 1995 - SVX Green low k mint condiation. 1995 - SVX Rally car, ex Matts car. Now to be used on track. 1992 - SVX red & Black being converted to Mid Engine. 1995 - SVX Red 143,000 bit rough. Owned 5 others Subaru back to a 1974 1400 GSR. |
#872
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Re: SVX Engine cooling "Again & Again"
I think the inlet condition of the pump is critical. Best design would have a straight pipe for 10 diameters at the pump inlet. We can't achieve this, however. I think the important part of Tony's design is the 42mm ID inlet to the pump, and the absence of the thermostat. This lowers velocity and turbulence at the pump inlet. I think a similar benefit could be achieved if there were an expansion immediately at the radiator outlet connecting to a 45mm hose. The expansion should be as far away from the pump inlet as possible to allow the flow to stabilize before entering the pump. The expansion would probably have to be pipe instead of hose to prevent collapse.
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____________________________________________ 95 LS-i Red, 31,xxx; bone stock for now; Daily Driver 94 LS-i Emerald Pearl, 106,xxx,; 246 whp; Tomyx snorkus and HKS Cold air intake; PWR aluminum radiator, silicone hoses; Inline thermostat; enhanced coolant routing; external power steering and oil coolers; Phenolic intake manifold spacers; 2004 WRX 5 speed transmission; ACT Clutch Kit, Heavy Duty Pressure Plate, Lightweight flywheel, performance disc; Group N motor mounts; ‘07 WRX 4-pot front calipers, cryo-treated slotted Tribeca rotors; Hawk HPS ferro-carbon pads; Frozenrotor rear slotted rotors; SS brake lines, Axxis Ultimate pads; Rota Torque 17x8 wheels; 245/40-17 Bridgestone RE01-R's; Koni inserts with Ground Control coilovers, Eibach springs; K-Mac camber/caster adjustable strut mounts; Urethane swaybar bushings; Bontrager rear sway bar; Urethane differential bushing; Custom Whiteline adjustable rear lateral links; Outlaw Engineering forged underdrive pulley; custom grind Web intake and exhaust cams (11 mm lift, 250° duration); solid lifters; CP custom aluminum forged 11 to 1 pistons, Brian Crower coated SS intake & exhaust valves; Brian Crower upgraded springs w/ titanium retainers; NGK sparkplugs; RallyBob (Bob Legere) ported and polished cylinder heads; Eagle H-beam rods; ACL Bearings; Cometic Head gaskets; ARP head studs & fasteners; Hydra Nemesis EMS; Wideband O2 sensor; 740cc Injectors; Walbro 255lph fuel pump; Upgraded WRX starter; Equal length SS headers (3 into 1); dual Magnaflow cat converters; 2 into 1 into 2 SS exhaust with Bullet muffler; OT Fiberglass hood; Oil pressure gauge; Programmable shift light, 2017 Subaru Forester XT, metallic dark gray, 29,xxx 2005 Porsche 911 Turbo S Cabrio, 24,xxx 2006 Subaru Outback LL Bean, 166,xxx sold 92 LSL Dark Teal, Smallcar Shift Kit - sold Last edited by shotgunslade; 01-21-2010 at 07:28 PM. |
#873
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Re: SVX Engine cooling "Again & Again"
Quote:
The custom hose to a larger pump inlet may work, just needs someone to try it! |
#874
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Re: SVX Engine cooling "Again & Again"
All I know is if someone could make another modified xover pipe an inlet like tony has I would be very interested in purchasing both to try on my car with the stock radiator.
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#875
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Re: SVX Engine cooling "Again & Again"
Quote:
Quote:
Any restriction, no matter how limited, must result in reduced pressure at the pump inlet, as compared with the outlet. The use of the term vacuum is not correct, and leads towards confusion at the very least. Suction is a more useful way of describing a possible condition at the pump inlet. Quote:
The pump can not "pump vacuum". It would be possible to block the inlet so that there is zero output. Or is it meant that the pump can not prime and deliver, if no liquid is available at the inlet? Again see last paragraph. Quote:
We are both sorry about the long explanation.
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Trevor, New Zealand. As a child, on cold mornings I gladly stood in cowpats to warm my bare feet, but I detest bull$hit! |
#876
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Re: SVX Engine cooling "Again & Again"
Quote:
The pressure will be throttled at the radiator outlet point and can not be restored by a simple increase in the following passage. But there again, the alteration in the size of the actual pump housing could be affecting impeller operation for better or worse. This could be the crux of the modification, rather than inlet cross section. Nothing has been confirmed in regard to what is actually taking place.
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Trevor, New Zealand. As a child, on cold mornings I gladly stood in cowpats to warm my bare feet, but I detest bull$hit! |
#877
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Re: SVX Engine cooling "Again & Again"
Quote:
Not nice, please keep your shirt on and answer the valid quereies within post #869. Be sure that the queries do not constitute negative criticism, as you appear to have concluded. Your reply is important will advance your cause. Sincerely, Trevor.
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Trevor, New Zealand. As a child, on cold mornings I gladly stood in cowpats to warm my bare feet, but I detest bull$hit! |
#878
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Re: SVX Engine cooling "Again & Again"
Quote:
Thanks for the response! You must be walking on air (okay, how about non-boiling coolant?). Can't wait to see how adding the 'stat back into the system affects things. I'm guessing that the final solution might just involve putting an in-line 'stat in the return line to the radiator like YT is looking to do with Dan's engine. Cheers. -Bill
__________________
Retired NASA Rocket Scientist Most famous NASA "Child" - OSIRIS-REx delivered samples from asteroid BENNU to Earth in Sept. 2023 Center Network Member #989 '92 Fully caged, 5 speed, waiting for its fully built EG33 '92 "Test Mule", 4:44 Auto, JDM 4:44 Rear Diff with Mech LSD, Tuned headers, Full one-off suspension '92(?) Laguna, 6 spd and other stuff (still at OT's place) My Locker |
#879
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Re: SVX Engine cooling "Again & Again"
Quote:
Again your achievement deserves a lot of credit in the EG33 cooling nightmare, I think this is the reason the Purple boosted WRX with the SVX engine failed a few years ago (check the E33 thread in turbo mods). But the lack of thermostat might be a problem for those who live in very cold areas. I would suggest you put an inline one, drive in a hot sunny day, high revs, uphills and test further that modification that you've done. Again kudos for you my friend!
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Danny 1994 Silver SVX in hybernation, awaiting for the monsterous awakening (Lebanon) 1967 Mercedes-Benz 250SL Euro Specs, Hard/Softtop, White/Red. Under Complete Restoration 2013 Mercedes-Benz SL350 Euro Specs, White/Red. Mint... Another step into SL Collection. |
#880
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Re: SVX Engine cooling "Again & Again"
Trevor,
You seem to selective find the bits of posts you want and not the important part. At the start I said the intake on the inside of the thermo cover was 29mm ID on the other part of that cover the ID is 33mm. Through this size pipe you are trying to suck upwards of 250 litre per minute. You and Tom seem to think suction and pressure have the same flow rates but they don't. Currently the top pipe on the engine is 33mm ID and it is operating in pressure. On the inlet of the pump it is in vacum and if I want to acheive the same flow rate as the top pipe I will need it to be nearly 45 ID. In one of the tests I did I had 5psi (I beleive that at 7Krpm it would be higher)pressure at the radiator cap which is top tank pressure. If I can move the restriction on the suction back up the system into the radiator as far as possiable I will get the benfit of this 5 psi on the suction (which will become zero pressure). By the way, The internal of a thermo cover is 29mm --- or 660 sq mm A Standard Subaru radiator in & out pipe is 32mm ID --- or 803 sq mm A PWR standard is 35 ID --- or 961 sq mm A modified PWR like I have is 42 ID ----- or 1,384 sq mm As can be seen from the numbers the new PWR outlet pipe means that the whole suction is 2 times bigger then the standard in surface area if I add to that the saving in friction my guess is that the flow rate is now 2.5 times greater then the standard. And this post is all in ID in case you missed that. Tony
__________________
1995 - SVX 700,000 K Mine, DMS Struts to lift car 2in. Tyres Wrangler Silent Armor 235/70R16, PBR Radiator. 6 speed with DCCD and R180 rer diff, Heavy duty top strut mounts front and rear. Speedo correction box fitted. New stero (gave up on the old one). Back seat removed and 2 spare tyres fitted for desert driving. ECUTune SC sitting in the box for the next SVX. 1992 - SVX 255 K Wife (Want to stay Married so not allowed to fit SC) 1992 - SVX Pearl with black roof race car roll cauge etc ready to race. Ex Tasman Targa car. 1995 - SVX Green low k mint condiation. 1995 - SVX Rally car, ex Matts car. Now to be used on track. 1992 - SVX red & Black being converted to Mid Engine. 1995 - SVX Red 143,000 bit rough. Owned 5 others Subaru back to a 1974 1400 GSR. |
#881
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Re: SVX Engine cooling "Again & Again"
Quote:
Further more, the cover to the pump causing a restriction on the suction side becomes an issue as well... If you run an electric pump which you have, the cover should be on the pressure side of the things. With this in mind, you were still having issues were you not? It is these reasons that I seek further investigation before I go ripping apart the lower tank of Dan's radiator before more testing of the new water manifold I had made... It is not that I don't believe you or Tony and definitely not that I do not appreciate the hard work with what you have done to test your theories... But there needs to be explanations for all of this that make total sense Tom |
#882
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Re: SVX Engine cooling "Again & Again"
Quote:
I think the suggestion is that if the water pump stops pumping, flow will cease. Rather than that the pump is or could lose priming. There can surely be no justification or reason for suggesting that a large pocket of air could develop.
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Trevor, New Zealand. As a child, on cold mornings I gladly stood in cowpats to warm my bare feet, but I detest bull$hit! |
#883
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Re: SVX Engine cooling "Again & Again"
Tom,
I understand your point and see were you are coming from. When Steve used the electric water pump it was a Craig and only a supposed 110l per min. Given the pressure it had to deal with there is no way it was pump 110litres. I think I worked out that Jacks pump has a simlar capiciaty to the standard pump at 5,000 rpm and that would explain why at higher revs it can't cool the car, its a straight coolant/flow rate issue. I would suggest you do all the things you are thinking of doing then just change the pump thermo cover to a larger pipe with a inline reducer to the radiator. You will see a big difference at high revs just by doing that. Cutting the radiator is not the biggest issue its the cover thats the killer. Trevour if you don't beleive that the centrifical pump can loss prime due to a restricted suction then you must beleive in the tooth fairy so i can't help you. Tony
__________________
1995 - SVX 700,000 K Mine, DMS Struts to lift car 2in. Tyres Wrangler Silent Armor 235/70R16, PBR Radiator. 6 speed with DCCD and R180 rer diff, Heavy duty top strut mounts front and rear. Speedo correction box fitted. New stero (gave up on the old one). Back seat removed and 2 spare tyres fitted for desert driving. ECUTune SC sitting in the box for the next SVX. 1992 - SVX 255 K Wife (Want to stay Married so not allowed to fit SC) 1992 - SVX Pearl with black roof race car roll cauge etc ready to race. Ex Tasman Targa car. 1995 - SVX Green low k mint condiation. 1995 - SVX Rally car, ex Matts car. Now to be used on track. 1992 - SVX red & Black being converted to Mid Engine. 1995 - SVX Red 143,000 bit rough. Owned 5 others Subaru back to a 1974 1400 GSR. |
#884
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Re: SVX Engine cooling "Again & Again"
Tony,
I call dibs on the second 'stat cover that comes off of your production line I take it you'll machine them for a standard o-ring in place of the 'stat/o-ring combo that the stock cover supports? Cheers, Bill
__________________
Retired NASA Rocket Scientist Most famous NASA "Child" - OSIRIS-REx delivered samples from asteroid BENNU to Earth in Sept. 2023 Center Network Member #989 '92 Fully caged, 5 speed, waiting for its fully built EG33 '92 "Test Mule", 4:44 Auto, JDM 4:44 Rear Diff with Mech LSD, Tuned headers, Full one-off suspension '92(?) Laguna, 6 spd and other stuff (still at OT's place) My Locker |
#885
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Re: SVX Engine cooling "Again & Again"
Tony:
Put me in line right after Bill. Dan
__________________
____________________________________________ 95 LS-i Red, 31,xxx; bone stock for now; Daily Driver 94 LS-i Emerald Pearl, 106,xxx,; 246 whp; Tomyx snorkus and HKS Cold air intake; PWR aluminum radiator, silicone hoses; Inline thermostat; enhanced coolant routing; external power steering and oil coolers; Phenolic intake manifold spacers; 2004 WRX 5 speed transmission; ACT Clutch Kit, Heavy Duty Pressure Plate, Lightweight flywheel, performance disc; Group N motor mounts; ‘07 WRX 4-pot front calipers, cryo-treated slotted Tribeca rotors; Hawk HPS ferro-carbon pads; Frozenrotor rear slotted rotors; SS brake lines, Axxis Ultimate pads; Rota Torque 17x8 wheels; 245/40-17 Bridgestone RE01-R's; Koni inserts with Ground Control coilovers, Eibach springs; K-Mac camber/caster adjustable strut mounts; Urethane swaybar bushings; Bontrager rear sway bar; Urethane differential bushing; Custom Whiteline adjustable rear lateral links; Outlaw Engineering forged underdrive pulley; custom grind Web intake and exhaust cams (11 mm lift, 250° duration); solid lifters; CP custom aluminum forged 11 to 1 pistons, Brian Crower coated SS intake & exhaust valves; Brian Crower upgraded springs w/ titanium retainers; NGK sparkplugs; RallyBob (Bob Legere) ported and polished cylinder heads; Eagle H-beam rods; ACL Bearings; Cometic Head gaskets; ARP head studs & fasteners; Hydra Nemesis EMS; Wideband O2 sensor; 740cc Injectors; Walbro 255lph fuel pump; Upgraded WRX starter; Equal length SS headers (3 into 1); dual Magnaflow cat converters; 2 into 1 into 2 SS exhaust with Bullet muffler; OT Fiberglass hood; Oil pressure gauge; Programmable shift light, 2017 Subaru Forester XT, metallic dark gray, 29,xxx 2005 Porsche 911 Turbo S Cabrio, 24,xxx 2006 Subaru Outback LL Bean, 166,xxx sold 92 LSL Dark Teal, Smallcar Shift Kit - sold |
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