Atom Smasher Thingee?

[SomethingElse]

It seems were closer to understanding the big bang theory and some other origin stuff through this atom smasher thing. Opening up new dimensions unseen to humans and all. Thinking about it..I wonder if people should mess with stuff like that? Maybe the mayan calender is wrong and the world will end before 12-21-2012

Has anyone else heard about it? I tried to read it but I get lost in all those big words and theory stuff. Can anyone brake it down into dummy terms?

heres a link....http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26439957/?gt1=43001

[Manarius]

Originally Posted by SomethingElse

It seems were closer to understanding the big bang theory and some other origin stuff through this atom smasher thing. Opening up new dimensions unseen to humans and all. Thinking about it..I wonder if people should mess with stuff like that? Maybe the mayan calender is wrong and the world will end before 12-21-2012

Has anyone else heard about it? I tried to read it but I get lost in all those big words and theory stuff. Can anyone brake it down into dummy terms?

heres a link....http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26439957/?gt1=43001

My physics professor is actually directly working on that project. Some of his work has been integrated into the machine.

Basically, we're trying to replicate the universe's conditions 1/trillionth of a second after the big bang. We're doing this by smashing proton beams into each other at really high speeds in order to replicate the universe at that moment. Right now they're just running some testing. The real power won't be turned up until the Spring of next year.

[Noir]

Originally Posted by SomethingElse

It seems were closer to understanding the big bang theory and some other origin stuff through this atom smasher thing. Opening up new dimensions unseen to humans and all. Thinking about it..I wonder if people should mess with stuff like that? Maybe the mayan calender is wrong and the world will end before 12-21-2012

Has anyone else heard about it? I tried to read it but I get lost in all those big words and theory stuff. Can anyone brake it down into dummy terms?

heres a link....http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26439957/?gt1=43001

Yes, basically we are trying to apply what we think we might know about things to see if it really works. What we didn't consider is that after we get this thing to function properly, it's going to open the dimension to God's secret hide out and when we catch him with his pants down...he's going to be extremely pissed and will probably wipe us out. The collider won't destroy us, catching God on the can reading Playboy will. I'm sure he's just reading the magazine for it's facinating stories....

[plantchick]

The basic goal of the Hadron collider is exactly what your post title says - to smash apart atoms so physicists can 'see' all the parts of an atom, or sub-atomic particles. A sub-atomic particle is just a particle (piece of matter) that's smaller than an atom. An 'elementary particle' is another term used. Literally it means one of the particles that makes up an element.

Until a bit before the middle of last century, the only sub-atomic particles that were thought to exist were the proton, neutron and electron. Now physicists know that there are hundreds of even smaller particles that make up each proton, electron or neutron and then even smaller particles that make up those smaller particles. Think of it like a country, which is made up of states, which are made up of cities, which are made up of suburbs, which are made up of streets, which contain houses, etc.

Theoretical and particle physicists are the dudes that compare what we know about the particles that make up atoms (atomic structure) with how atoms actually behave and try and figure out what's missing.

Some of those smaller particles are only 'known' in theory - they haven't been confirmed in experiments because we've never been able to break an atom apart. Others are thought to only have existed for fractions of a second after The Big Bang so, like Manarius said, they could only be proven to exist by recreating the conditions that caused atoms to come together. (In a way we're doing the reverse of the Big Bang - we're tearing some atoms apart instead of putting them back together, but to do that we need the same conditions)

One of the 'Holy Grails' of physics is to explain why matter exists at all. How did something come out of what we understand as nothing? The current theory is that a particle called the Higgs bosun is what caused or causes particles to have mass. Its hoped that the collider will either prove or disprove its existence. If its proven, great, but even if disproven, it allows room for new theories to be developed. (It's often referred to as "the God particle" btw)

I'm a biologist, not a physicist, so that's about as best as I can explain it, and even though this post is half a mile long, it leaves a ton out for others to add. Sometimes simplifying science borders on making the explanation wrong. Here's a link a physicist friend sent me which shows how the collider works using interactive graphics and explains the sub-atomic better than I can here. http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/in...30/cernproject

As for whether we should mess with it, that's a toughie to answer. Pretty much all scientific enquiry has controversy attatched to it - the very nature of enquiry is trying to answer unknown questions. For me it boils down to humility and ethics - do we know enough to factor the risks? As a biologist I'm bothered by genetic engineering. Not in principle, but I do question whether we know enough to understand the long term ramifications and I do know that genetically engineered plants, can't be contained the way big agribusiness would like the public to believe. At the same time, all species came about as a result of what could be called genetic engineering - its just that nature did the engineering over billions of years.

As far as the collider goes, yeah I'm personally satisfied that physics is advanced enough to understand those risks. Doesn't mean they're right or that I'm right to believe them. Sure as hell hope they are, though.
===

And Noir.. ya made me laugh.

[SVXRide]

I wouldn't lose too much sleep over the CERN effort. It will be extremely cool if they can actually measure the Higgs Boson so we can actually get our arms around the question why do things weigh what they weigh?
-Bill

[TomsSVX]

Originally Posted by SVXRide

I wouldn't lose too much sleep over the CERN effort. It will be extremely cool if they can actually measure the Higgs Boson so we can actually get our arms around the question why do things weigh what they weigh?
-Bill

all these measurements being taken are in the metric system right???

Tom

[JaySVX]

There's a lot of contraversey about this whole thing going on. Personally I'm rather excited to see what comes of it. It's truely groundbreaking, and what we learn from it could potentially be used to put us in hte next solar system, or galaxy even. The effects down the line will be immeasurable.

Think back, when things such as radiation, vacuum tubes, and integrated circuits were coming about, the folks toying with them were ridiculed, or even called blasphemous, for their work. Yet, where would we be today had they not continued on. Even further, Columbus to prove the earth wasn't flat. Sure, we'd have likely found out eventually, however who knows when it would have been? Every time there is something that has the potential to be a giant step, there is much hesitation. Either folks are genuinly scared, or trying to cover their asses, incase something goes wrong, so they can say "I told you so." Yet we push onwards. Today's worth without computers? Not nearly as powerful, efficient, or generally fun.

I say go for it, I can't wait to see what comes of it.

[Manarius]

In addition to what plantchick said, one thing that my professor mentioned was that the LHC is helping out with the use of grid computing. Because the LHC puts out so much data, Grid computing is necessary to store, transmit, and analyze all of that data. Grid computing has many many potential applications and the chance to revolutionize computing and the internet was we know it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grid_co...d_applications

[SVXRide]

Originally Posted by TomsSVX

all these measurements being taken are in the metric system right???

Tom

Funny, real funny...
-Bill

[Noir]

Originally Posted by plantchick

The basic goal of the Hadron collider is exactly what your post title says - to smash apart atoms so physicists can 'see' all the parts of an atom, or sub-atomic particles. A sub-atomic particle is just a particle (piece of matter) that's smaller than an atom. An 'elementary particle' is another term used. Literally it means one of the particles that makes up an element.

Until a bit before the middle of last century, the only sub-atomic particles that were thought to exist were the proton, neutron and electron. Now physicists know that there are hundreds of even smaller particles that make up each proton, electron or neutron and then even smaller particles that make up those smaller particles. Think of it like a country, which is made up of states, which are made up of cities, which are made up of suburbs, which are made up of streets, which contain houses, etc.

Theoretical and particle physicists are the dudes that compare what we know about the particles that make up atoms (atomic structure) with how atoms actually behave and try and figure out what's missing.

Some of those smaller particles are only 'known' in theory - they haven't been confirmed in experiments because we've never been able to break an atom apart. Others are thought to only have existed for fractions of a second after The Big Bang so, like Manarius said, they could only be proven to exist by recreating the conditions that caused atoms to come together. (In a way we're doing the reverse of the Big Bang - we're tearing some atoms apart instead of putting them back together, but to do that we need the same conditions)

One of the 'Holy Grails' of physics is to explain why matter exists at all. How did something come out of what we understand as nothing? The current theory is that a particle called the Higgs bosun is what caused or causes particles to have mass. Its hoped that the collider will either prove or disprove its existence. If its proven, great, but even if disproven, it allows room for new theories to be developed. (It's often referred to as "the God particle" btw)

I'm a biologist, not a physicist, so that's about as best as I can explain it, and even though this post is half a mile long, it leaves a ton out for others to add. Sometimes simplifying science borders on making the explanation wrong. Here's a link a physicist friend sent me which shows how the collider works using interactive graphics and explains the sub-atomic better than I can here. http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/in...30/cernproject

As for whether we should mess with it, that's a toughie to answer. Pretty much all scientific enquiry has controversy attatched to it - the very nature of enquiry is trying to answer unknown questions. For me it boils down to humility and ethics - do we know enough to factor the risks? As a biologist I'm bothered by genetic engineering. Not in principle, but I do question whether we know enough to understand the long term ramifications and I do know that genetically engineered plants, can't be contained the way big agribusiness would like the public to believe. At the same time, all species came about as a result of what could be called genetic engineering - its just that nature did the engineering over billions of years.

As far as the collider goes, yeah I'm personally satisfied that physics is advanced enough to understand those risks. Doesn't mean they're right or that I'm right to believe them. Sure as hell hope they are, though.
===

And Noir.. ya made me laugh.

tooo....many......words.....to..........reed...... must....remain...ignant...

[Landshark]

Originally Posted by Noir

tooo....many......words.....to..........reed...... must....remain...ignant...

cliffnotes:
the collider will open a portal to an alternate dimension, through which will pass an invasion force of donkey-men warriors bent on conquering our world.

ready your army of crack-monkeys, for the final battle will be at hand.

[jeffast]

has any one else here played the original half-life. that about concludes my thoughts on the matter.

[NikFu S.]

Not to nerdily rain in your already gloomy parade, but Black Mesa first acquired Xen artifacts through experimental portals, and it was one such artifact that when tampered with opened the resonance cascades.

If you think about it, really think about it, the LHC barely has enough power to smash atoms together, and those things are tiny. They don't have much energy by themselves. If it somehow did create mini black holes, they would be so small and insignificant as to decay in a span of time likely shorter than the collision itself.
I believe most of the power consumption goes towards powering those massive electromagnets.

[Landshark]

Originally Posted by NikFu S.

Not to nerdily rain in your already gloomy parade, but Black Mesa first acquired Xen artifacts through experimental portals, and it was one such artifact that when tampered with opened the resonance cascades.

Gozer the Traveler. He will come in one of the pre-chosen forms. During the rectification of the Vuldrini, the traveler came as a large and moving Torg! Then, during the third reconciliation of the last of the McKetrick supplicants, they chose a new form for him: that of a giant Slor! Many Shuvs and Zuuls knew what it was to be roasted in the depths of the Slor that day, I can tell you!

[Noir]

Originally Posted by Landshark

cliffnotes:
the collider will open a portal to an alternate dimension, through which will pass an invasion force of donkey-men warriors bent on conquering our world.

ready your army of crack-monkeys, for the final battle will be at hand.

ahh....relief from the overheating of my noggin....you are the great savior of millions of head lice that dwells in the thick stalks of my hair. all hail landmule!!!