m.p.g

Originally posted by svxistentialist


Hi Harvey

How's it going in Coff's Harbour?

I suspect all markets have the Manual switch in one place or another. It is designed to get you out of slippery conditions, so all markets require it.

The MANUAL function does a couple of things. It only operates in 2 or 3 range, so if you are in D with MANU lit up, I presume POWER would be available. Must try this, see if it works. It shuts out 1 range, so the car will start in 2. It will change up quickly to 3, and hold 3, depending on speed, if 3 is selected. It will not allow kickdown from 3 to 2, but it will start briefly in 2 from a standing start. The POWER shift map is locked out when MANU is on and the selector is in 2 or 3.

I have a number of different reference books, 92 US owner manual, 92 US full Workshop Manual, ATSG manual for the 4EAT and End Wrench manual for the 4EAT.

Having researched them all, I have changed my opinion slightly. Only slightly

First, it's important to attend to the semantics side of things. There is an intrinsic difference between shift changing maps stored in the ECU software, and drive "modes", which change depending on these switches we have such as Manu, Econ or Power, activating or cutting off certain control functions in the autobox. This is far from a simple piece of equipment we have, so it's easy to get confused on what it is doing.

According to The Oracle, as I regard the Workshop Manual, there are only two different shift maps, which they describe as Shift Pattern Select Control. This may answer Phil's question above. The paragraph states:

" Shift pattern is selectable automatically between a normal pattern suitable for ordinary economy running and a power pattern suitable for climbing uphill or rapid acceleration"

This implies and clarifies one point, that the Normal mode is the same shift map as Economy. This means that in Econ, changes up should happen at the same time as in Normal, which conflicts with Andy's findings, but agrees with what Sonar is saying.

Regarding the buttons Harvey, the POWER switch was dropped from Japanese models I think after 93, maybe 94 or 95, I'm sure Paddles or James would know this one. I think James' grey car is 92 and has a POWER button, I know Belha's car has one.

So to clarify:

UK cars have 2 shift patterns, Normal and Power.

Normal shift pattern has the same change up points as Economy, and they vary in both depending on road speed and throttle opening.

In Normal, the Power shift map is accessible for rapid acceleration, and when activated will cause the car to hold on to lower gears longer while accelerating, and will give quicker access to kickdown if required.

In Economy "mode", when the Econ switch is on, there is no access to the Power shiftmap, the car will change up swiftly and smoothly, and will be reluctant to kickdown without planting the welly.

In Manual "mode", as above, it only works in 2 or 3, locks out 1 and locks out the Power shiftmap in the 2 or 3 range. Also locks out kickdown if 3 is selected. With 3 selected, it will start briefly in 2, and then hold 3 range.

I have a number of charts that explain the relationship between shift points for the two shift maps, relative to vehicle speed and throttle opening. They explain a lot, I will get them scanned and get Earl to install them in the How-to.


Joe

... and, as you remarked that the gearbox is far from simple, when I climb the M40 up out of the Oxford plains, through that big cutting - which I know as the Cumberland Gap - the gearbox power shifts of its own accord to maintain a good lick up the hill without any foot-on-throttle pressure change....but it doesn't feel as acute as a gear down-shift.

Messenger... What time of day do you drive up the M40? I use it everyday...

[Sonar]

... Normal shift pattern has the same change up points as Economy, and they vary in both depending on road speed and throttle opening. ...

-and, as it seems, -the actual SPEED of the throttle opening!

To clarify, if I press the accelerator pedal in "normal" speed, to let's say 50%, in a given situation the AT does not kickdown, but if I press it rapidly to the same 50%, it DOES kickdown!

So the accelerator pedal is speed sensitive .....

[svxistentialist]

You are right on that Sonar. It is measured by the Throttle Position Sensor [TPS], a small black device on the left side[facing forward] of the intake.

Harvey mentioned cruise control also, and signals from the CC are processed by the TCU to maintain the chosen speed. Likewise, it also takes account of signals from the ABS circuit, and from numerous other devices and circuits.

Like messenger said, simple it ain't.

Joe

[tone]

Hi everybody,

I still did not experiment a lot with gearbox functioning patterns as I have been running the car for litle time and also given the sensitiveness of the subject.

I did not recognize however in your descriptions the same possibilities I see in my car, namely on the Manual function.

Please take a look at this picture from my locker showing my cars center console and the shifting lever.

http://www.subaru-svx.net/photos/user.php?tone|14205

Probably not too noticeable, on the lower part of the lever base, just below the number "1" there is the Manual button (the button above the "P" is for the power antenna).

Once I tried to use the gear box by pressing the Manual button and starting with the lever in position "1" and then shifting to "2" and "3" and it seemed to work as a manual gearbox although with a lot of time lag between shifts and also the shifting was very smooth.

I never read the owners Manual because the one I have is in German and I don´t understand it but could it be that when I put in the "1" position I am really getting the 2nd gear?
What about the other positions?
Are they always one gear up?
Will I ever go to 4th gear if I choose "3" and progressively floor it?

One thing I can confirm: I am usually driving with ECON pressed on (the button on the left side of the shft lever) and whatever the way I try it never entered Power mode.

Cheers.

Tone

[tone]

Hi.

Here is the pic.

Tone

[svxistentialist]

Originally posted by tone
Hi everybody,

I
Probably not too noticeable, on the lower part of the lever base, just below the number "1" there is the Manual button (the button above the "P" is for the power antenna).

Once I tried to use the gear box by pressing the Manual button and starting with the lever in position "1" and then shifting to "2" and "3" and it seemed to work as a manual gearbox although with a lot of time lag between shifts and also the shifting was very smooth.

I never read the owners Manual because the one I have is in German and I don´t understand it but could it be that when I put in the "1" position I am really getting the 2nd gear?
What about the other positions?
Are they always one gear up?
Will I ever go to 4th gear if I choose "3" and progressively floor it?

Cheers.

Tone

Yours seems to have the same configuration as the UK models Tone, and you would expect it to behave the same.

The button you mention above P, on mine that button allows movement of the selector with the ignition off and the solenoids that work the interlock not functioning. Amazed it is working the aerial on yours, is that an aftermarket fixture?

Regards your questions:
yes, with MANU on, if you select 1 it will ignore it, and start the car in 2, and hold 2.

For most situations it would probably be best to select 3 with MANUAL, and let the car [TCU, really] make the decisions on changing up. It will not change back down unless you are nearly stopped.

The positions in MANUAL are not always one up, the only gear ignored is 1. Also MANUAL does not function in D [4], just 2 and 3.

Regards changing up from a lower gear, the answer is yes. The transmission is programmed to select the next higher gear if the revs go beyond a set limit in that gear to save the engine from blowing up. I think the preset level is 6750 revs, but I will have to check this figure, my memory is not faultless these days.

Joe

[paddlesnz]

Originally posted by svxistentialist

Regarding the buttons Harvey, the POWER switch was dropped from Japanese models I think after 93, maybe 94 or 95, I'm sure Paddles or James would know this one. I think James' grey car is 92 and has a POWER button, I know Belha's car has one.

POWER switch was standard on ALL JDM models for all years.

[svxistentialist]

No wonder you're ing Paul!

Originally posted by crow_road75
Messenger... What time of day do you drive up the M40? I use it everyday...

no known time and no known day - have living and office in London and Chetwode near Buckingham, and currently supervising an F1 vehicle project over near Witney - which all adds up to around 500 miles a week - thats why I've clocked up 85,000 miles in two SVXs in 4 years! By the way, Monzta, I had two 'B' Monzas before - a bronze and a white resprayed navy blue, both looked after by the fabled Andre Bryant - another seriously underrated 2 door 4 seat motorway muncher. One expired just East of M40 junction 8, and my black SVX blew its water pump just West of same.... be warned, there's something spooky about Junction 8.

[tone]

Originally posted by svxistentialist


Yours seems to have the same configuration as the UK models Tone, and you would expect it to behave the same.

The button you mention above P, on mine that button allows movement of the selector with the ignition off and the solenoids that work the interlock not functioning. Amazed it is working the aerial on yours, is that an aftermarket fixture?

Regards your questions:
yes, with MANU on, if you select 1 it will ignore it, and start the car in 2, and hold 2.

For most situations it would probably be best to select 3 with MANUAL, and let the car [TCU, really] make the decisions on changing up. It will not change back down unless you are nearly stopped.

The positions in MANUAL are not always one up, the only gear ignored is 1. Also MANUAL does not function in D [4], just 2 and 3.

Regards changing up from a lower gear, the answer is yes. The transmission is programmed to select the next higher gear if the revs go beyond a set limit in that gear to save the engine from blowing up. I think the preset level is 6750 revs, but I will have to check this figure, my memory is not faultless these days.

Joe

Hi Joe,

Don't know if it has to do with the absence of the button above P but my selector moves with the ignition off.

I don't think that button is aftermarket since the design and button type is the same as the MANUAL one and perfectly integrated in the console which makes me think it is an OEM feature.
It also shows in the (German) owners manual, so...
Anyway, it just puts the aerial up and down regardless of the stereo being powered on or off.

Regarding the MANUAL function I really don't get it.
Why having a lever with positions 1, 2 and 3 if it will NEVER use the 1st gear?

If I have to go to 6750rpm to make it shift to 4th forget about it.
Whenever I get close to 5000rpm I always get the feeling that the engine is under a lot of effort.
I know these engines best working point, power wise, is above 4000rpm but I am so used to its smoothness and quieteness below that value that I very rarely push.
I know how wild it gets around 5500rpm.
My NA 2000cc Forester has the same behaviour.
Very progressive and quiet up to 4000 and then it starts to really get nervous.

Now think of 3319cc being fed at 6750rpm.

Then what would be the point in discussing mpg values?

Tone

[svxistentialist]

Regarding the MANUAL function I really don't get it. Why having a lever with positions 1, 2 and 3 if it will NEVER use the 1st gear?

You are missing the point a little bit. It will only ignore or skip 1 range when Manual is switched on. For Normal or Power driving, it always starts in 1.

The reason it skips 1 with Manual button engaged is because 1 range will release too much power to the wheels and cause them to slip. Manual mode is meant to be used in mucky or snowy low grip conditions. The gearbox can assign pulling power to the wheels requiring it if the revs are low enough and the wheels don't start to slip. With too much power applied, one or two wheels will start to spin, and dig in and bog the car down. Randy can confirm that this happens in soft mucky lawns, right Randy??

If I have to go to 6750rpm to make it shift to 4th forget about it.

Again, this is only a fail-safe function of the transmission, and you are not meant to be trying it out. If you were to select 2 range, either Normal or Manual, and floor the throttle and leave it there, the revs and speed would build up until about 6750 revs. At that point, the ECU would instruct the solenoids to select 3 range, even though you have the lever in 2. This is merely a safety precaution to stop you breaking the engine [if you forgot what range you had selected], and is not meant to be used daily.

Hope that clarifies

Joe

[tone]

Gotcha!
I assumed I could only go to 1-2-3 with the MANUAL button depressed.
Just don't get it why they called it MANUAL...
They should have called it GRIP or TRACTION.

Regarding the revs issue I was just joking.
I would NEVER go to that point.

Clarified I am.

Tone

[svxistentialist]

Originally posted by tone
Just don't get it why they called it MANUAL...
They should have called it GRIP or TRACTION.

Regarding the revs issue I was just joking.
I would NEVER go to that point.

Clarified I am.

Tone

Buttered up nicely, then?

I agree. Why Manual? Makes no sense at all. Traction would be more correct, in fact, perfect.

Regards the revs, I was serious. I've done it. It works. And the car goes like stink!!!

Only the once. I was afraid the TCU would forget to change up, and burst the engine. However, you should try it, it's fun......

Joe

[Sonar]

I don't really get it.......what do you ppl mean???
Do you think 6750rpm is HIGH ???????

I must have a complete different SVX , yes I must have!!

My redline is 6500 rpm, and if I floor it, it would go to that and sometimes beyond it, almost 7000rpm on the lower gears, before it shifts.

And I assure you, the engine has nothing in common with my other Subarus "5.600 max power rpm" behaivor.

I rockets off from 5000, pulling insanely to 6500, and still pulls hard to 7000rpm !! -and what a SONG !!

And I HAVE tried, many times that "shift up security rpm" thing...
but it's hard to precisely read the tacho, but around 7000 rpm it autmaticaly shifts up, whatever gear I have choosen.

Maybe the tach reads to high, I don't know, but what I DO know is that it pulls (in kickdown) to 230km/h or 145mph (GPS) and 6500rpm on the 3:rd, before the 4:th kicks in.

Maybe this explains why I have mesaured (with GPS) a speed of 275km/h (172 mph) AND STILL PULLING!!! (Poor guy in that Porsche )

/Sonny