President Bush must have failed math

[Electrophil]

Originally Posted by demonsvx

What gets me more than anything is Bush believes he is above the law His speeches are not constructive but demanding of what America needs to do let alone the rest of the world. I believe in our Constituition and Bill of Rights as Americans, we need to express our rights as citizens. Yes I did not vote this last election but I WILL this go around. This country should not be run like a corporate entity but as it was intended, A DEMOCRACY

Them Tennessee boys know what they are talking about. I do agree!

[demonsvx]

Originally Posted by Electrophil

Them Tennessee boys know what they are talking about. I do agree!

Ive lived in Tennessee since 1989 before that Hawaii and Ive seen MUCH diversity in my life. In Hawaii I was a minority, Tennessee the opposite. I felt racism towards me and against others in both places. I live in a predominately white community who are split on Americas issues, but this is NOT a issue of race but human morals. Why did we go to Iraq? We knew why we went to Afganistan to find Bin Laden. I fear my government MORE than some crazy terrrorist, why? Because I feel Im being watched ever minute of my life. Is this American, is this our checks and balances at work? Or has fear gripped our country with the simple "threat level" color coded crap whenever the govt. feels needy Im sorry but Ill take my chances by myself and my AK,MINI 14, etc. Ask anyone from the Gulf Coast if they trust our government to "help in a time of crisis" and see the response you get.

[Electrophil]

Originally Posted by mohrds

Surplus? Surplus? Look over the reports from the late 90's and you will see the fuzzy math. You can see them at http://www.cbo.gov

$124 billion actual surplus in 1999. $149 billion of that amount represents the surplus in off-budget accounts--mainly the Social Security trust funds, whose income and spending are accounted for separately from the rest of the government. That leaves us with an actual budget surplus of (drum roll please):

$25 billion in the hole

All of that 'surplus' (and most of the improvement projected for later years) results from government revenues that have been higher than expected. (READ: HIGHER TAXES) Over the 10-year period from 2001 through 2010, CBO now anticipates an additional $1.26 trillion in revenues compared with the previous baseline.

OK, so we never hit a budget surplus, just an on-paper surplus and a projected surplus.

Now, with me being a businessman, I have to compare this to any other company. It is standard practice when you want to position yourself to look financially better for a sale to cut expenses to the bone and raise rates. This will enact a short term profitability and make you look lean and stable. You also create studies that show the sustainability of these expense reductions and rate increases. However, the downside is that it catches up with the new owner. Once the company is sold, the lack of expenses now comes back in the culmination of dissatisfied customers, inability to fulfill orders, etc. The company loses its customer base and begins to falter. An internal recession begins and the company levels out to what it had been prior to the repositioning.

So we have the administration in the late 90's taking this approach and now we are feeling the downturn. The government's revenue is the taxes we pay and it was projected to increase from the estimated $2 trillion in 2000 to an estimated 3.26 trillion in 2010. That is a 63% increase in tax revenue. If you take about 15% off for inflation, another 10% off for job creation, we still have a 38% increase in taxes projected.

Considering that the numbers through 2005 only show a 8% increase in tax revenue, I feel really good about the economy right now.

Doug

Fox news reported today, that they did another debt limit increase. They claim the increase amounts to $30,000 for every man, woman and child in our country.

Anybody got a calculator that does "fuzzy math"?

[mohrds]

Originally Posted by Electrophil

Fox news reported today, that they did another debt limit increase. They claim the increase amounts to $30,000 for every man, woman and child in our country.

Anybody got a calculator that does "fuzzy math"?

I will happily accept a debt increase over a tax increase. It will cost me less in the long run. People just don't open their eyes to what the economy really runs on and not what the left-winged economic professors babble on about on the network news.

With a debt increase, I can buy US bonds, earn interest and have the government pay me to loan them money.

With a tax increase, the government takes my money and never gives it back.

What needs to happen is that the government keeps most of the debt in this country. Why don't we have war bonds? Why don't we have Katrina bonds? Why don't we have 9/11 bonds? The reason is that Wall street can't make money on US bonds so they force everyone to put their retirement funds into one of their selected money losing mutual funds so they continue to make a profit.

I know everyone thinks I'm defending Bush. I'm not. I'm simply pointing out that the world's problems are not all on the back of Bush and his cronies. The Haliburton scams are less concerning to me than the MPAA, the RIAA, Disney, and Time Warner buying legislation to keep their profits growing at astronomical rates on the backs of consumers and the previous administration doing nothing about it.

I don't care who edits which speeches, I don't care that the media only uses the shots of Bush looking dumbfounded and only used shots of Clinton looking stately. I don't care about the media ignoring any good conservative stories and editorializing every news story. I don't care if someone is listening in to my phone calls, I lead a boring life so I don't care what they hear.

What I care about is my democracy and I will vote for whomever I feel will do the best job. That person may differ from who you think will do the best job. In the end, we all want the same thing.

Doug

[demonsvx]

Originally Posted by Electrophil

Fox news reported today, that they did another debt limit increase. They claim the increase amounts to $30,000 for every man, woman and child in our country.

Anybody got a calculator that does "fuzzy math"?

I heard it was about 9 trillion Looks better this way 9,000,000,000,000. Problem with this kind of debt is interest will keep it there for a long time, in better words consumer goods, utilities, bank rates, etc. will go up. I hope my $0.48 raise this year will cover it. Also where I work they give us our raise in April but our insurance enrollment starts in May-translation I get 2 paychecks with a raise then its back to normal, sometimes a little less. It depends on how our healthcare does its "crative math"

More debt, eh?

[Electrophil]

Gotta pay it back sometime, interest and all. That means a tax increase much much higher than the "set of tires per year" he gave the middle class. When the debt hits 9 trillion, or 30,000 per person in population.... Not good..

What was it when Bush took the leads? About 6 trillion? A little less?

Where has this 3 trillion gone? He gave a tax cut of 300 per person, or 600 per family... That comes up to about 600 billion over the last 5 years... Where did that other 2.4 trillion go? He walked in the door with a surplus. What's up, and how come he isn't in jail yet?

He gave it all to the filthy rich, and when the tax increase comes, they need to pay for it. They can have all the stupid little dinner calculations they want. They put us into this mess, now they need to pay and get us back out.

How come the entire Republican majority isn't cleaning our floors right now?

Fire them all and get some "real live" conservative blood back in there like it was. Then.... Make those little carcksuckers pay and pay hard for all they've done to the middle class.

[Electrophil]

There it is... The National Debt was 5.7 trillion going down when he took office.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...090441,00.html

It's now 8.2 Trillion. He walked in with over a 200 billion dollar surplus on the year's budget.

Now....... 3 times... 3 times... Clinton was man enough to say... Hey! I ain't signing it... Either balance it, or we default. He tooked that free spending republican congress to task. He stood up!

3 separate times..

I doubt if Bush has ever been conscience long enough to stand up. He's a wuss!

Bush is the same irresponsible little coked out wuss he was when he was a failed businessman. He hasn't changed.. I wish like all that he hadn't of stolen the presidency. He has screwed us in every way we turn.

[mohrds]

Originally Posted by Electrophil

Where has this 3 trillion gone? He gave a tax cut of 300 per person, or 600 per family... That comes up to about 600 billion over the last 5 years... Where did that other 2.4 trillion go? He walked in the door with a surplus. What's up, and how come he isn't in jail yet?

He gave it all to the filthy rich, and when the tax increase comes, they need to pay for it. They can have all the stupid little dinner calculations they want. They put us into this mess, now they need to pay and get us back out.

Um, lets see. 9/11 cleanup, homeland security created, Federal Airport police created, reallocating money back into the CIA, DEA, ATF, Border Patrol, Military, FBI that Clinton cut. Trying to hunt down Osama because Clinton failed when he was handed to him on a silver platter. Then there was the weather over the last several years. We have had more hurricanes hit land in the last three years than in all of 1990 through 2000, we have had five catagory 5 hurricanes within two years, the most since 1933. There were only 2 catagory 5 hurricanes that hit land in all 8 years of Clinton.

Gave it back to the filthy rich, eh? Like the Kennedy's and the Kerry's?

AND STOP SAYING HE WALKED INTO A SURPLUS. THERE WAS NO SURPLUS, ONLY A PROJECTED SURPLUS BASED ON A FUTURE OF INCREASED TAXES. Sheesh.

I only hope that Russ Feingold runs in 2008. After 8 years of Bush cleaning up after Clinton, the next president can get back to the business of rebuilding our country. Although I don't think Russ has the balls to challange his own party. After all they did force him to press for a censure he was personally against just to prove he still towed the party line.

[mohrds]

Originally Posted by Electrophil

There it is... The National Debt was 5.7 trillion going down when he took office.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...090441,00.html

It's now 8.2 Trillion. He walked in with over a 200 billion dollar surplus on the year's budget.

Nice propaganda article. The $236B didn't exist if you took the Social Security funds out of the budget. What would we have done the year after they gutted that?

Quotes like "Much less during Clinton's term" without figures leads people to beleive that much is more than the actual 7%, so they left them out.

"Many analysts" "Experts pronounced" are all ways that the press leads the reader. An analyst could be the person the next cube over from the writer, a guy the next row over can be a financial expert. They print their opinions and the uninformed reader takes that as fact.

One thing they did leave in that I am surprised they did was the statement about Clinton having the highest postwar debt at 67% in 1996. That means that since the deficit went down from 00-01, the GDP of America went down at a faster rate. Can someone say "Recession starting"? Now we are at 65% because Bush has increased GDP much faster than the debt is increasing. That is called an Economic Recovery. Perhaps they figured that people are too dumb to catch that.

[Electrophil]

Under the Bush Administration, he has had to raise our debt ceiling 3 times.

Under the Clinton Administration, zero times. The National debt decreased under the same fuzzy math in use today that is showing a sky-rocketing deficits.

9/11 wasn't suppose to happen. Bush ignored the warnings. He wouldn't even talk to Tenet. The UAE refused Clinton's state department access... The same UAE with the Cole connections, the 9/11 connections, and the Bush connections.

If 9/11 hadn't of happened, there wouldn't be any of these ineffective new departments.

Iraq is a war profiteer's war. It has no purpose for the people of our country, and never did....and never will. We will be booted out of that country. It's not ours anyway is it? It's a "democracy...".

Is it the logic here that's confusing?

As We've mentioned before, the same "fuzzy math" is being used today. So that would mean our deficit would be how much higher today than they are reporting?

Come on.... You are on a sinking ship. Jump off. Those of us who were clear on his intentions at the beginning will not think twice and consider you intelligent for jumping. It is the smart thing to do.

[Electrophil]

By the way, the total Federal money invested in the last 4 hurricanes has been less that 300 billion dollars. Katrina has seen less that 40 billion.

Where's the rest? How much has been spent on Iraq?

[Electrophil]

A Quote from Reid on the House floor:

"When it comes to deficits, this president owns all the records. The three largest deficits in our nation's history have all occurred under this administration's watch," the Nevada Democrat told the Senate, according to prepared remarks on his Web site.

[mohrds]

Originally Posted by Electrophil

The National debt decreased under the same fuzzy math in use today that is showing a sky-rocketing deficits.

Which part of "Clinton cut to the bone to make it look good on paper, now we have to rebuild it" do you not understand? I can make my books look great using his technique, but I will have to make up for it later. That is what is happening.

Originally Posted by Electrophil

9/11 wasn't suppose to happen. Bush ignored the warnings. He wouldn't even talk to Tenet. The UAE refused Clinton's state department access... The same UAE with the Cole connections, the 9/11 connections, and the Bush connections.

Yes and Clinton did oh so much to protect us like turning down bin laden and selling our nuclear secrets to the Chinese.

Originally Posted by Electrophil

If 9/11 hadn't of happened, there wouldn't be any of these ineffective new departments.

You are right. Had Clinton not handcuffed our security agencies and cut their budgets, 9/11 wouldn't have happened.

Originally Posted by Electrophil

Is it the logic here that's confusing?

Not at all confusing, just blinded by the propaganda

Originally Posted by Electrophil

As We've mentioned before, the same "fuzzy math" is being used today. So that would mean our deficit would be how much higher today than they are reporting?

Nope. That means that our yearly budget is further in the hole than it is reported. Just like it has been for decades. Until the Social Security account is seperated out of the budget permenantly, the numbers will always be fuzzy.

Originally Posted by Electrophil

Come on.... You are on a sinking ship. Jump off. Those of us who were clear on his intentions at the beginning will not think twice and consider you intelligent for jumping. It is the smart thing to do.

I never was on the ship, I've always been on the shore. I don't like Bush. How many times do I have to say that?

You are simply making an easy scapegoat out of Bush when the real culprit is still chasing interns around the desk.

You obviously hate Bush so much (for reasons you still haven't identified) that you will never be able to see the truth so there is no point in wasting my time here when you simply bring out the same defeated arguments over and over again...

[mohrds]

Originally Posted by Electrophil

A Quote from Reid on the House floor:

"When it comes to deficits, this president owns all the records. The three largest deficits in our nation's history have all occurred under this administration's watch," the Nevada Democrat told the Senate, according to prepared remarks on his Web site.

The largest according to actual dollar figures, but not as it relates to GDP and inflation. Clinton held that record in 1966 and prior to that it was before WWII. Just another example of the liberal propaganda machine picking and choosing which details to shape their conclusions from.