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  #31  
Old 08-04-2009, 08:43 AM
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Re: Cash for clunkers...the final installment perhaps

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Originally Posted by Green1995SVX View Post
I export about 30% of the cars that I sell. As an example, Russia recently imposed a 100% tax on cars imported from the US. I am STILL exporting cars to Russia and making money. Cars are less expensive in the US than anywhere else on the planet.

They are really really great cars. I almost kept the one in the picture for myself.

Mike
You´re right, cars in the US are dirty cheap, for example, a mint condition 95´SVX is priced 9500-12000 u$d in here. I think it´s a good deal to export cars to some countries.
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  #32  
Old 08-04-2009, 09:13 AM
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Re: Cash for clunkers...the final installment perhaps

'

This program is a prime example of the "Broken Window Fallacy"

Cash for Clunkers boils down, in the simplest terms to taxpayers paying $3 billion to destroy maybe $2 billion worth of productive assets, on the idea that somehow this is good for the economy.

If anyone wants to invoke Bastiat and his “what is seen and unseen”, this is a pretty good example of his Broken Window Fallacy — the seductive notion that destroying assets is good for the economy because people earn income from replacing them.

A more concise understanding of this can be found here:

http://freedomkeys.com/window.htm



They used to say "War is good for the economy" and point to the fact that World war II got us out of the Great Depression. But let's take the "Broken Window Fallacy and relate it to something more understandable.

Let's replace the word "War" with "Terrorism"...


September, 11, 2001


The loss of the World Trade center towers, and other buildings and capital is bad enough, but thousands of people, many experts in their field who are not easily replaced, perished when terrorists destroyed the towers. The physical losses are in the billions of dollars; the human losses are incalculable.

It is true that some people will be made better off temporarily as insurance money compensates the owners in part for their losses and new construction begins.

Anyone who has ever had to make an insurance claim on lost or destroyed property knows that the ordeal is hardly without cost.



But didn't it create opportunity and help the economy?

Only a tiny number of New Yorkers were employed either cleaning up the rubble, or rebuilding after this gruesome task was completed.

The billions of dollars that insurance companies paid for losses came from funds that would have been invested elsewhere. Other projects that were being planned died, as they were starved for lack of available capital to invest. Insurance companies wer forced to raise rates to cover losses. This gave consumers less to spend.

But the events of 9/11 got us into Afghanistan and then Iraq. Billions have been spent on this and thousands of lives again lost... and counting.

We are still at war... and what about the economy?






So for everyone reading this, if you have bought a car using the cash for clunkers program, please send me a thank you for helping you to buy it, as it will be paid for by my (and even your) taxes, along with those paid by millions of other Americans.

Anf those of your grandchildren's as well.


.
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JFICX8659TH100216.....Date of Manufacture: November 16, 1995.....
Fuji Heavy Industries..Ōta North Plant....Ōta City,. Gunma Prefecture, Japan

In-Service Date: January 2, 1997



"The Pristine Green Polo Machine”
First Polo Green on the Network
First Clear front turn signals, JDM Alcyone hood emblem, rear panel, and BOXER engine cover on the Network (US) (2000)
First 5000K HID factory fog lights (2007)
First SVX JDM BBS wheels on a USDM SVX (2013)

HID lighting (5000K) for headlight and H3 fog lights, PIAA SuperExtreme 120W high beams, rebuilt EG33 longblock, Cometic head gaskets, Phase II flexplate, AMR aluminum radiator with custom silicone hoses, 160A high-output alternator in aluminum-ceramic coated case, new design alternator wiring upgrade v.4, rare factory headlight protectors, refinished JDM BBS mesh aluminum wheels and custom, polished billet aluminum new hex center caps, LED grille mod, R1 Concepts high-carbon cryo slotted rotors, Akebono ceramic pads, Goodridge S/S braided brake lines, Smallcar Stage 1 shift kit, ThermalTech aluminum/ceramic-coated valve covers, Energy Suspension urethane front & rear swaybar bushings, Bontrager22 rear swaybar with QS Components Chromoly Teflon/Kevlar endlinks, "$15.00/5 minute" suspension mod. Hella Supertone horns, Custom stainless steel exhaust system with 2" headpipes, Magnaflow cats, AeroTurbine AR25 resonator /AWD "Bullet" muffler.


R.I.P. 2010 Subaru Outback Limited 2.5 CVT...338,000 miles. Totaled by a 1,300 lb. COW March 4, 2016

2014 Hyundai Avante Limited ...178,000 miles. Actually quieter and smoother than the Outback

2007 Mazda Miata MX-5 PRHT...102,000 miles.
Plenty of parts, service and windshields.


4th Registered Network member —2/21/2001

My NEW locker..I...My Email..I..Wikipedia/SVX .

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Last edited by svxcess; 08-04-2009 at 11:30 AM.
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  #33  
Old 08-04-2009, 11:17 AM
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.

and look what the Phillipine goverment does to cars used for smuggling...





.
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1996 Polo Green LSi #216..138,100 miles...SOLD

JFICX8659TH100216.....Date of Manufacture: November 16, 1995.....
Fuji Heavy Industries..Ōta North Plant....Ōta City,. Gunma Prefecture, Japan

In-Service Date: January 2, 1997



"The Pristine Green Polo Machine”
First Polo Green on the Network
First Clear front turn signals, JDM Alcyone hood emblem, rear panel, and BOXER engine cover on the Network (US) (2000)
First 5000K HID factory fog lights (2007)
First SVX JDM BBS wheels on a USDM SVX (2013)

HID lighting (5000K) for headlight and H3 fog lights, PIAA SuperExtreme 120W high beams, rebuilt EG33 longblock, Cometic head gaskets, Phase II flexplate, AMR aluminum radiator with custom silicone hoses, 160A high-output alternator in aluminum-ceramic coated case, new design alternator wiring upgrade v.4, rare factory headlight protectors, refinished JDM BBS mesh aluminum wheels and custom, polished billet aluminum new hex center caps, LED grille mod, R1 Concepts high-carbon cryo slotted rotors, Akebono ceramic pads, Goodridge S/S braided brake lines, Smallcar Stage 1 shift kit, ThermalTech aluminum/ceramic-coated valve covers, Energy Suspension urethane front & rear swaybar bushings, Bontrager22 rear swaybar with QS Components Chromoly Teflon/Kevlar endlinks, "$15.00/5 minute" suspension mod. Hella Supertone horns, Custom stainless steel exhaust system with 2" headpipes, Magnaflow cats, AeroTurbine AR25 resonator /AWD "Bullet" muffler.


R.I.P. 2010 Subaru Outback Limited 2.5 CVT...338,000 miles. Totaled by a 1,300 lb. COW March 4, 2016

2014 Hyundai Avante Limited ...178,000 miles. Actually quieter and smoother than the Outback

2007 Mazda Miata MX-5 PRHT...102,000 miles.
Plenty of parts, service and windshields.


4th Registered Network member —2/21/2001

My NEW locker..I...My Email..I..Wikipedia/SVX .

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  #34  
Old 08-04-2009, 02:39 PM
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Re: Cash for clunkers...the final installment perhaps

.

This is a Must- read on the Cash for Clunkers "success" story/

http://www.scrivener.net/2009/08/cas...tory-crow.html


Pay close attention to the example of how the "credit" actually works (and not completely to your benefit) and also check out section on the destruction of the 750,000 functioning automobiles...


as well as the Final Verdict.


Only the government could conceive of a program that would cost taxpayers $3 billion to destroy between $1.5 -$2 billion worth of productive assets.


This is my last post on this topic. period.
./
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Subaru Ambassador

1996 Polo Green LSi #216..138,100 miles...SOLD

JFICX8659TH100216.....Date of Manufacture: November 16, 1995.....
Fuji Heavy Industries..Ōta North Plant....Ōta City,. Gunma Prefecture, Japan

In-Service Date: January 2, 1997



"The Pristine Green Polo Machine”
First Polo Green on the Network
First Clear front turn signals, JDM Alcyone hood emblem, rear panel, and BOXER engine cover on the Network (US) (2000)
First 5000K HID factory fog lights (2007)
First SVX JDM BBS wheels on a USDM SVX (2013)

HID lighting (5000K) for headlight and H3 fog lights, PIAA SuperExtreme 120W high beams, rebuilt EG33 longblock, Cometic head gaskets, Phase II flexplate, AMR aluminum radiator with custom silicone hoses, 160A high-output alternator in aluminum-ceramic coated case, new design alternator wiring upgrade v.4, rare factory headlight protectors, refinished JDM BBS mesh aluminum wheels and custom, polished billet aluminum new hex center caps, LED grille mod, R1 Concepts high-carbon cryo slotted rotors, Akebono ceramic pads, Goodridge S/S braided brake lines, Smallcar Stage 1 shift kit, ThermalTech aluminum/ceramic-coated valve covers, Energy Suspension urethane front & rear swaybar bushings, Bontrager22 rear swaybar with QS Components Chromoly Teflon/Kevlar endlinks, "$15.00/5 minute" suspension mod. Hella Supertone horns, Custom stainless steel exhaust system with 2" headpipes, Magnaflow cats, AeroTurbine AR25 resonator /AWD "Bullet" muffler.


R.I.P. 2010 Subaru Outback Limited 2.5 CVT...338,000 miles. Totaled by a 1,300 lb. COW March 4, 2016

2014 Hyundai Avante Limited ...178,000 miles. Actually quieter and smoother than the Outback

2007 Mazda Miata MX-5 PRHT...102,000 miles.
Plenty of parts, service and windshields.


4th Registered Network member —2/21/2001

My NEW locker..I...My Email..I..Wikipedia/SVX .

.
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  #35  
Old 08-04-2009, 04:49 PM
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Re: Cash for clunkers...the final installment perhaps

Wow this thread is the John Hoffman post***** thread, isn't it?

Just giving you a hard time, John.
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  #36  
Old 08-04-2009, 07:46 PM
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Re: Cash for clunkers...the final installment perhaps

Quote:
Originally Posted by Green1995SVX View Post
Wow this thread is the John Hoffman post***** thread, isn't it?

Just giving you a hard time, John.
I am allowed to have a meltdown like this every 10 years or so. After many years of giving advice here, I just needed a little time to rant about this.

But I know when to quit, and I did. So I can't be too much of a junkie.



Now go back into the closet and find my damn jacket and I promise I'll be quiet...




.
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Subaru Ambassador

1996 Polo Green LSi #216..138,100 miles...SOLD

JFICX8659TH100216.....Date of Manufacture: November 16, 1995.....
Fuji Heavy Industries..Ōta North Plant....Ōta City,. Gunma Prefecture, Japan

In-Service Date: January 2, 1997



"The Pristine Green Polo Machine”
First Polo Green on the Network
First Clear front turn signals, JDM Alcyone hood emblem, rear panel, and BOXER engine cover on the Network (US) (2000)
First 5000K HID factory fog lights (2007)
First SVX JDM BBS wheels on a USDM SVX (2013)

HID lighting (5000K) for headlight and H3 fog lights, PIAA SuperExtreme 120W high beams, rebuilt EG33 longblock, Cometic head gaskets, Phase II flexplate, AMR aluminum radiator with custom silicone hoses, 160A high-output alternator in aluminum-ceramic coated case, new design alternator wiring upgrade v.4, rare factory headlight protectors, refinished JDM BBS mesh aluminum wheels and custom, polished billet aluminum new hex center caps, LED grille mod, R1 Concepts high-carbon cryo slotted rotors, Akebono ceramic pads, Goodridge S/S braided brake lines, Smallcar Stage 1 shift kit, ThermalTech aluminum/ceramic-coated valve covers, Energy Suspension urethane front & rear swaybar bushings, Bontrager22 rear swaybar with QS Components Chromoly Teflon/Kevlar endlinks, "$15.00/5 minute" suspension mod. Hella Supertone horns, Custom stainless steel exhaust system with 2" headpipes, Magnaflow cats, AeroTurbine AR25 resonator /AWD "Bullet" muffler.


R.I.P. 2010 Subaru Outback Limited 2.5 CVT...338,000 miles. Totaled by a 1,300 lb. COW March 4, 2016

2014 Hyundai Avante Limited ...178,000 miles. Actually quieter and smoother than the Outback

2007 Mazda Miata MX-5 PRHT...102,000 miles.
Plenty of parts, service and windshields.


4th Registered Network member —2/21/2001

My NEW locker..I...My Email..I..Wikipedia/SVX .

.

Last edited by svxcess; 08-04-2009 at 07:49 PM.
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  #37  
Old 08-04-2009, 09:25 PM
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Re: Cash for clunkers...the final installment perhaps

Quote:
Originally Posted by svxcess View Post

Now go back into the closet and find my damn jacket and I promise I'll be quiet...




.
I haven't been in the closet for years. Maybe that's why I can't find it?
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  #38  
Old 08-05-2009, 12:20 AM
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Re: Cash for clunkers...the final installment perhaps

10 characters.

Last edited by essveeexxee; 10-19-2009 at 02:08 PM.
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  #39  
Old 08-05-2009, 01:21 AM
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Re: Cash for clunkers...the final installment perhaps

Wow, that Volvo is still very nice in that video. The engine was crying. Why would they kill the nice cars like that or instead of exporting/selling them to the poor countries?

PS: Did that Volvo have any engine oil in that when they killed it? The engine still sounded nice in the video!

My other cars are not eligible for this program except for the svxi. Unless I have a pos like 1980s' with rusty body and smoking engine, I will trade for a 2010 prius and it will be at least 30mpg better than the old one. The program may be good to someone or help pushing up some car sales. But, some people may have just seen the money and using it wrong. They should rethink what are the criteria for this program imo.

I think John's calculation may vary depending on case, it also does not consider of some other variations such as new cars are safer, also better for environment(emission test), and definitely less repair fees, save time, save worries with new car warranty and etc. But a new car if it isn't paid full, it also needs full comprehensive insurance (more money to operate), higher property taxes yearly. It all depends on what you can afford and what you need.
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  #40  
Old 08-05-2009, 03:32 AM
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Re: Cash for clunkers...the final installment perhaps

My god what has happened to our country... Soon we will all be living in a third world state... pathetic... Suddenly the Amish colonies are sounding like a great place to live.
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  #41  
Old 08-05-2009, 10:49 AM
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Question Re: Cash for clunkers...the final installment perhaps

Another thing... ppl trading their cars in are supossed tu buy cars made in USA? Because if not, then if you buy an, lets say.. japanese or korean car, you are paying with US money to feed another countries economy.. I.E: US money being drained from USA... I am right or not?
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  #42  
Old 08-05-2009, 12:00 PM
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Re: Cash for clunkers...the final installment perhaps

Of the top 10 cars being purchased, 5 are Japanesse and 1 Korean.

http://www.foxnews.com/slideshow/200...kers/?slide=10

Gene
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  #43  
Old 08-05-2009, 08:25 PM
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Re: Cash for clunkers...the final installment perhaps

When you buy a Japanese or Korean car in the US, you're helping our economy, too. The car dealership is an american company. The car company is an american company. Toyota Motor North America, for example. They employ many americans. In fact, most of Toyota's cars sold here are MADE HERE.

When the Americans stop making JUNK, consumers will follow. Ford is making some nice stuff. GM is on the right track. Chrysler should have been left to go under.

Those would be my opinions.

Mike
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  #44  
Old 08-06-2009, 04:12 AM
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Re: Cash for clunkers...the final installment perhaps

Quote:
Originally Posted by Green1995SVX View Post
When the Americans stop making JUNK, consumers will follow. Ford is making some nice stuff. GM is on the right track. Chrysler should have been left to go under.

Mike

see I differ on this one aspect. I think Chrysler can and will get better but I think GM should have been left to DIAF.
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  #45  
Old 08-07-2009, 10:40 AM
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Re: Cash for clunkers...the final installment perhaps

Lurita Doan

- FOXNews.com

- August 05, 2009
Guess What 'Cash for Clunkers' Is Costing You

Before Congress allocates further funding to the "clunker" program, they should demand an audit of the full cost of the program.

Washington is busy patting itself on the back for the cash for clunkers program. Congress, meanwhile, is preparing to pour another $2 billion into the program. Spurred by government stimulus rebates of up to $4,500 per clunker, folks are rushing to car dealers to get a piece of the action. Yet, what no one in Washington is talking about is the actual cost to taxpayers of each clunker. Certainly, it's more than $4,500 per car.



Reading the C.A.R.S. "clunker" legislation, the program details reveal that a significant amount of the $1 billion program's funding is used by Department of Transportation (DOT) to administer the program.



First, DOT created and staffed an entirely new organization with three divisions to administer the clunkers program.



Second, the funding was allocated to cover extensive Help Desk telephonic support, promotional materials, mailers, travel, Web site development and maintenance. Plus, extensive administrative and managerial staffing was also funded. There is staffing to manage the contracts, to review the auto dealer submissions, to develop Executive Branch and Congressional reporting, and to provide investigatory oversight for the program.



Federal government staffing for 3 divisions doesn't come cheaply. Add to it other administrative and overhead costs for office space, telecommunications, power, equipment and furniture, as well as costs for meetings, photocopying, paper, pens, help desk support. When the government's costs of running the program are totaled up, each clunker is likely to cost taxpayers around $6,000 per car.



And there's more: A quick look just at staffing reveals staggering costs. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) was given approval to staff up for the completion of a series of four Forms connected with the program (Forms 1070, 1071, 1073 and 1075). Estimated staffing for these 4 reports was 160,353 man hours, or approximately 78 employees.



These 78 employees might be contracted out with a private sector vendor (which thepPresident has made clear is not a choice he prefers). Or, they may be pulled from existing projects, which increases the execution risks for those assignments (perhaps critical infrastructure?). Or, the government might hire new employees. At a fully loaded cost, including all compensation and benefits, that works out to approximately $150,000 per employee.



Even the most modest estimate means that DOT will have used approximately $12 million of the funds from the clunker program just to handle 4 of the forms for car dealers. Of course, there are many more forms connected with the clunker program. Get the picture?



Then there is the government's Help Desk Support, which is usually provided by the private sector and often funded on a per call basis. But, often minimum values are built into each contract, protecting the help desk provider, who must man the phones, regardless of calls received. If DOT uses an existing government vendor, contracts would still have to be modified to add funding and requirements for this new task, which requires the efforts of contracting officers, program managers and administrative support.



The administrative costs are huge on the record keeping side also. The law states that the records have to be kept for a period of five years, which would involve storage of hard copies and electronic media. One of the off-site record storage entities would need their government contract modified to add funding for this new task.



Clunker funding was used to develop the official Web site (www.cars.gov), but also, undoubtedly, the contract has an ongoing requirement to support the Web site and its transactions. The cost for the Recovery.gov Web site contract was approximately $18 million to upgrade and modify an existing Web site -- so, one can only imagine what the price tag is on a rush-job, creating a robust Web site, capable of handling millions of hits, as well as forms processing and data storage.



Add up all the various government costs of administrating the program and it will likely come to several hundred million dollars, which makes the true taxpayer cost of each clunker approximately $6,000.



In addition to the high costs comes tremendous execution risk in the Clunker program and the likelihood of fraud. Perhaps, one of the most disturbing parts of the Clunker program is that the recipient of the $4,500 doesn't need to provide a Social Security number. So, it is possible for illegal immigrants, as well as resourceful folks from Canada and Mexico, to cross our borders, trade in their clunkers, and get American taxpayer dollars. But don't expect anyone in Congress to admit that taxpayers are paying around $6,000 to provide a $4,500 rebate for a foreigner or illegal immigrant to buy a new car.



Before Congress allocates further funding to the "clunker" program, they should demand an audit of the full cost of the program. This time, Congress should insist upon learning the full administrative and overhead costs of DOT to run the program, with special consideration to the long term costs associated with federal employees to run a program of short duration. More interesting, still, would be an audit to determine how many non-American citizens are participating in the program. Once Americans get some transparency on those numbers, we will have a much better understanding of the clunker program and will be better able to determine its success.



When Americans find out just how much this program is costing, and where the benefits are going, watch the enthusiasm evaporate.



Lurita Doan is the former Administrator of the U.S. General Services Administration and commentator for Federal News Radio 1500AM.
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