The Subaru SVX World Network   SVX Network Forums
Live Chat!
SVX or Subaru Links
Old Lockers
Photo Post
How-To Documents
Message Archive
SVX Shop Search
IRC users:

Go Back   The Subaru SVX World Network > SVX Main Forums > Technical Q & A

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-19-2008, 02:31 PM
SomethingElse's Avatar
SomethingElse SomethingElse is offline
word words wording
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: CO
Posts: 1,387
Send a message via AIM to SomethingElse Send a message via MSN to SomethingElse
Question Help! Sunroof And Windows Always On

I have always noticed the green light is lit at all times on the drivers window switch since picking the car up. Today I was cleaning the car and hit the power sunroof button by accident and sure enough I heard the motor activate. The power windows also work. This is normally a good thing, but the downside is the key was not in the ignition.

Im also experiencing the click but no start syndrome. When I first get in the car is when it occurs, it does not even have to be hot. It takes about 15-20 times before it starts. battery is good alternator is good, Gads even installed a new ignition switch. I have the wiring diagram but am not familiar with it yet. I cant figure out what wires are supposed to be active all of the time and wich ones are switched on by ignition.

Anyone else experienced this? Thanks in advance.
__________________
Eric

Rebuilt P/S pump info... http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/showthread.php?t=50918

If your car wont start info... http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/show...ighlight=click
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-19-2008, 03:01 PM
kwren's Avatar
kwren kwren is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: washington state
Posts: 3,499
Re: Help! Sunroof And Windows Always On

I think your power window relay has to be shorted out.

It should be located on a bracket under the drivers seat.

The voltage to energize the relay coil only is applied when the ignition switch is on and comes through the relay field to ground. The voltage that actually goes through the relay contact points... to the components... windows, sun roof, is hot all the time. For voltage to get through the contacts to your components, there has to be a short. Chances are it it the relay points.

It should have a quick disconnect electrical conection for the relay that can be unpluged to test!

Yellow and black/yellow wires are the ones to test on my wiring diagram.
Hope this helps...
Keith

(if you get tired of clicking, you might do the bosch relay thingie like I and many others have done with phenomenal results!)

Last edited by kwren; 07-19-2008 at 03:05 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-20-2008, 03:52 PM
SomethingElse's Avatar
SomethingElse SomethingElse is offline
word words wording
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: CO
Posts: 1,387
Send a message via AIM to SomethingElse Send a message via MSN to SomethingElse
Re: Help! Sunroof And Windows Always On

Quote:
Originally Posted by kwren View Post
I think your power window relay has to be shorted out.

It should be located on a bracket under the drivers seat.

The voltage to energize the relay coil only is applied when the ignition switch is on and comes through the relay field to ground. The voltage that actually goes through the relay contact points... to the components... windows, sun roof, is hot all the time. For voltage to get through the contacts to your components, there has to be a short. Chances are it it the relay points.

It should have a quick disconnect electrical conection for the relay that can be unpluged to test!

Yellow and black/yellow wires are the ones to test on my wiring diagram.
Hope this helps...
Keith

(if you get tired of clicking, you might do the bosch relay thingie like I and many others have done with phenomenal results!)
Great response thanks!!
I was guessing a relay because of all those years of arcing eventually they weld themselves. It happens to all manufactures, just unfamiliar with the suby wire diagram lingo.

When I got the car It did have the relay installed to the starter output wire, I took it out because at stoplights,with the clutch pushed in, the idle would go crazy and the check engine light would flash its nuts off.

I ll have to look at the starter circuit diagram and see if I cant just add a ground somewhere or maybe replace another relay.
__________________
Eric

Rebuilt P/S pump info... http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/showthread.php?t=50918

If your car wont start info... http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/show...ighlight=click
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-20-2008, 04:28 PM
kwren's Avatar
kwren kwren is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: washington state
Posts: 3,499
Re: Help! Sunroof And Windows Always On

Bosch relay help... (attachment)

If you need another format, let me know

Keith
Attached Files
File Type: doc svx bosch starter stuff.doc (85.0 KB, 115 views)
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-22-2008, 04:27 PM
SomethingElse's Avatar
SomethingElse SomethingElse is offline
word words wording
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: CO
Posts: 1,387
Send a message via AIM to SomethingElse Send a message via MSN to SomethingElse
Re: Help! Sunroof And Windows Always On

Quote:
Originally Posted by kwren View Post
Bosch relay help... (attachment)

If you need another format, let me know

Keith
formats ok.

That was the exact setup that was on the car, again the idle would just run up to 1200 and drop...almost to a stall. The check engine light would come and and go off during the idle crazyness. As soon as I took the relay out of the loop it stopped.
__________________
Eric

Rebuilt P/S pump info... http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/showthread.php?t=50918

If your car wont start info... http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/show...ighlight=click
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-22-2008, 04:44 PM
kwren's Avatar
kwren kwren is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: washington state
Posts: 3,499
Re: Help! Sunroof And Windows Always On

Quote:
Originally Posted by SomethingElse View Post
formats ok.

That was the exact setup that was on the car, again the idle would just run up to 1200 and drop...almost to a stall. The check engine light would come and and go off during the idle crazyness. As soon as I took the relay out of the loop it stopped.
and this happened with the feed line to the contacts of the relay the line that originally was connected to the starter? If it was to the field terminal, a different ball game!

The reason for my question is if that is the case, the wire would actually go no place.
Interested in the answer. Always a reason but sometimes not an easy path to follow

Keith
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-24-2008, 11:39 PM
kwren's Avatar
kwren kwren is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: washington state
Posts: 3,499
Re: Help! Sunroof And Windows Always On

Quote:
Originally Posted by SomethingElse View Post
formats ok.

That was the exact setup that was on the car, again the idle would just run up to 1200 and drop...almost to a stall. The check engine light would come and and go off during the idle crazyness. As soon as I took the relay out of the loop it stopped.
Has to be a reason. What was the code if there was one. My engine is running rough and leaving a 12 and 37 code.
12 is starter circuit. 37... 02

Really interested in what you got... If you got a code from it

Thanks,
Keith
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-25-2008, 12:52 AM
Hondasucks's Avatar
Hondasucks Hondasucks is offline
Subaru Technician
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 1,512
Send a message via AIM to Hondasucks Send a message via MSN to Hondasucks Send a message via Yahoo to Hondasucks
Registered SVX
Re: Help! Sunroof And Windows Always On

click but no crank usually means corrosion on the contact disk or contacts in the starter. Pretty simple to fix, take the starter off and remove the plate from the back of the solenoid (Part of the starter where the big fat wire from the battery is connected), remove the plunger and clean the copper disk with some fine emery cloth, and do the same with the two copper contacts on either side of the housing. If either one of these are badly burnt or pitted, they will need to be replaced, I'm not sure if they are available from Subaru, Toyota sells them individually. (The Toyota ones can be used in a Subaru starter, you just have to make sure you get the right ones as there are a few variations).

I've also seen this problem be caused by the starter disable relay in the security system, had just enough corrosion on the contacts to allow just enough voltage to the solenoid so that it would click, but it wouldn't engage the contacts so the starter wouldn't turn.

A bad B+ (Battery) connection at the starter would also cause this problem.
__________________
1992 SVX LS-L #1222 Pearl White
1987 GL Turbo wagon, 5 lug conversion, D/R 5 speed (Rice killer)
1992 Dodge Ram 4x4 diesel (car hauler)
1968 Dodge Polara convertible (Camaro killer)
1990 Toyota Corolla FWD auto (330,000 mile grocery getter)
1986 VW Jetta
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-25-2008, 11:04 AM
kwren's Avatar
kwren kwren is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: washington state
Posts: 3,499
Re: Help! Sunroof And Windows Always On

not the click we are talking about
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-26-2008, 02:18 PM
Hondasucks's Avatar
Hondasucks Hondasucks is offline
Subaru Technician
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 1,512
Send a message via AIM to Hondasucks Send a message via MSN to Hondasucks Send a message via Yahoo to Hondasucks
Registered SVX
Re: Help! Sunroof And Windows Always On

Whoops :P

On the idle fluctuation, my SVX does that when you first start it up if it has been sitting for a few days, but if you drive it every day it doesn't do it.
__________________
1992 SVX LS-L #1222 Pearl White
1987 GL Turbo wagon, 5 lug conversion, D/R 5 speed (Rice killer)
1992 Dodge Ram 4x4 diesel (car hauler)
1968 Dodge Polara convertible (Camaro killer)
1990 Toyota Corolla FWD auto (330,000 mile grocery getter)
1986 VW Jetta
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 07-28-2008, 04:46 PM
SomethingElse's Avatar
SomethingElse SomethingElse is offline
word words wording
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: CO
Posts: 1,387
Send a message via AIM to SomethingElse Send a message via MSN to SomethingElse
Re: Help! Sunroof And Windows Always On

Yah, no codes!

Another bummer is, I disconnected the relay from under the front seat and my windows still work Guess I have a short to voltage somewhere? maybe ill just part it out so I dont have to fix it

back to the wire diagram

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hondasucks View Post
Whoops :P

On the idle fluctuation, my SVX does that when you first start it up if it has been sitting for a few days, but if you drive it every day it doesn't do it.
The Fluctuation only happened when the clutch was pressed in, hot or cold did not matter. The check engine light would flash during the idle madness....I guess I could compare it to a huge vaccume leak...like the engine dump fuel to prevent stalling...then cut back some and nearly stall then jump back up to 1200-1300...over and over as long as the clutch is pressed in..maybe ill go back out and see what wires I got going on the clutch.
__________________
Eric

Rebuilt P/S pump info... http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/showthread.php?t=50918

If your car wont start info... http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/show...ighlight=click

Last edited by SomethingElse; 07-28-2008 at 04:54 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-28-2008, 05:40 PM
kwren's Avatar
kwren kwren is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: washington state
Posts: 3,499
Re: Help! Sunroof And Windows Always On

Quote:
Originally Posted by SomethingElse View Post
Yah, no codes!

Another bummer is, I disconnected the relay from under the front seat and my windows still work Guess I have a short to voltage somewhere? maybe ill just part it out so I dont have to fix it

back to the wire diagram
If you disconnected all wires from the relay, I doubt if the power windows will work because they have no power source. I have not actually looked under the seat so I can't say what the setup is, but usually would involve a quick disconnect connection for the wires. Be sure terminal #4 is disconnected and please let me know what it looks like.

It is possible something else is located on bracket-under drivers seat as well. Don't know about that.

Only terminal # 4 (black/yellow wire) on the power window relay is the terminal provides the actual voltage supply to all the window controls and motors on my schematic.

Black/yellow #4 and yellow #2 are the wires/terminals for the relay contacts. #2 yellow hot at all times from the power window circuit breaker. #1 and #3 would be the actuating relay coil with #3 constantly grounded and #1 red/green with a 10 amp fuse circuit hot when ignition switch is on.

Considering this, Because #2 gets the necessary voltage, as long as the battery is charged and the battery cables are connected. The relay passes it through to #4 when actuated, or if the relay points are shorted. According to the schematic, no other scenario can exist!

There is always a possibility that something is different from the wiring diagram (schematic).

You can tell by observing the situation.

With your negative battery cable disconnected a simple continuity (ohms) test across relay terminals #2 and #4 will show a short contact situation if continuity is detected.

Let us know!

Keith

Last edited by kwren; 07-28-2008 at 05:47 PM. Reason: spelling (of course) LOL
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-28-2008, 05:43 PM
kwren's Avatar
kwren kwren is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: washington state
Posts: 3,499
Re: Help! Sunroof And Windows Always On

Quote:
Originally Posted by SomethingElse View Post
Yah, no codes!

Another bummer is, I disconnected the relay from under the front seat and my windows still work
A quick observation

Do you really care? What difference does it make???

Keith

Last edited by kwren; 07-28-2008 at 05:48 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-29-2008, 02:45 AM
SomethingElse's Avatar
SomethingElse SomethingElse is offline
word words wording
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: CO
Posts: 1,387
Send a message via AIM to SomethingElse Send a message via MSN to SomethingElse
Re: Help! Sunroof And Windows Always On

I care because its putting a drain on the battery. When I lifted the carpet up to get to the relay, which is attached to the power window circuit breaker, I noticed 2 random wires running under there. One went to the seatbelt power wire and I didnt have enough sunlight to dig on the other one.
__________________
Eric

Rebuilt P/S pump info... http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/showthread.php?t=50918

If your car wont start info... http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/show...ighlight=click
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-29-2008, 02:41 PM
kwren's Avatar
kwren kwren is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: washington state
Posts: 3,499
Re: Help! Sunroof And Windows Always On

can't have a drain on the battery for sure.

You should be able to work it out ok if the wire colors are the same as the information!

Good luck,
Keith
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:31 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2015 SVX World Network
(208)-906-1122