I made big mistake

[Bailey]

This is a lesson in knowing just enough to be dangerous...last time I had my oil changed I put in synthetic and then my car was parked for a few months this winter until repairs were done, this was a BIG MISTAKE I know have learned. ( I thought I had read somewhere on the forum that synthetic was good...I should have read more threads! now I understand synthetic is very very bad on an older engine.) Now that I am driving it again the past few days after having a front strut replaced, what was once a tiny leak is now a full-on leak, big puddle of oil under my car. Now I am going to have to take it in to see what all is leaking. I feel sick. I was just starting to save up for the transfer clutch repair , having just paid for new strut, new tires, new battery.

[svxistentialist]

I am sorry to hear this has caused you trouble. Yes, for sure we have had conflicting opinions and advice on this down the years.

In general it is true that fully synthetic is the best you can get. It does not "die" or wear out as quick as mineral oil, plus it has superior lubricating ability over a wider range of temperatures and usage conditions.

On the minus side it tends to find leaks or bad seals pretty quickly. If your SVX has been run a long time on mineral oil, at higher mileages the seals on the front of the engine tend to fail. We think that mineral oil over the years tends to put a deposit around the seals which slows or disguises the leak. You might see a slight drip, you might not.

When you put fully synthetic into such an older engine with these mineral deposits around the seals, the synthetic oil dissolves the deposits, and proceeds to pour out past the bad seal creating an instant problem.

Replacing these seals is the way to go, as they were on the way out anyway before you changed to synthetic and highlighted the problem. They are not all that expensive, but the labor for doing the job can be. Is there any clued-up SVX member with mechanical ability close to you that could help you with changing these seals at home? It's not that major a job.

Just as another piece of information, if your SVX is over 100K miles [or even 80K] and there is no record of the timing belt having been replaced, you should now use this opportunity to get that belt changed, and replace the seals in the same job, cutting down on labor.

Oh and after doing the job go back to ordinary mineral oil or to semi synthetic oil for the future. Your SVX genuinely does not need fully synthetic unless you are racing it.

Joe

[Schralper]

proof that syn's flow way better than conventional oils.
come on now how big is the puddle?
it's probably just a dribble from the valve cover.
isn't this what the belly pan is for? catching the oil before it dribbles?

[Bailey]

thanks for information... I appreciate it.
well, I can add:
my car has 100,000 miles.
Thanks for advice on timing belt, sounds like that would be a good idea to do at same time.
No one lives near me to do the work, but I know very reputable repair shop that isnt the dealership so will be about 40% cheaper than dealer and I trust them.

about the puddle:
I used to have a very small puddle under car that I wasn't too worried about, you could tell from looking at it that it was fairly dry, car had been parked there for a long time and not much new wet stuff of significance.

I would say this new very fresh puddle is about 2' x 1' in dia, and just occured over 2 day period when my car was intermittently parked outside my garage on my rather steep driveway two days after work. (Would the fact that it was parked on an incline make a difference?) Now this is weird, yesterday afternoon I pulled the car into the garage and it has been in garage now for about 20 hours and I just backed it out and looked under it and no leaking there yet.

I am going to put some newspaper down under my car today and see how much it is leaking. Maybe I raised the alarm too quickly . There is a slight chance this is perhaps coming from my son's car...bad for him, good for me. Or maybe both cars are leaking.

[svxistentialist]

Originally Posted by Bailey

thanks for information... I appreciate it.
well, I can add:
my car has 100,000 miles.
Thanks for advice on timing belt, sounds like that would be a good idea to do at same time.
No one lives near me to do the work, but I know very reputable repair shop that isnt the dealership so will be about 40% cheaper than dealer and I trust them.

about the puddle:
I used to have a very small puddle under car that I wasn't too worried about, you could tell from looking at it that it was fairly dry, car had been parked there for a long time and not much new wet stuff of significance.

I would say this new very fresh puddle is about 2' x 1' in dia, and just occured over 2 day period when my car was intermittently parked outside my garage on my rather steep driveway two days after work. (Would the fact that it was parked on an incline make a difference?) Now this is weird, yesterday afternoon I pulled the car into the garage and it has been in garage now for about 20 hours and I just backed it out and looked under it and no leaking there yet.

I am going to put some newspaper down under my car today and see how much it is leaking. Maybe I raised the alarm too quickly . There is a slight chance this is perhaps coming from my son's car...bad for him, good for me. Or maybe both cars are leaking.

Well, this is probably good news!

I'm going to hazard a guess you parked the car nose up and tail down. Am I right?

Well, Schralper is correct, the belly pan does actually catch a lot of the oil leaks, and is covered by a sort of spongy fibre on the inside designed to soak up the oil and not have it flowing back over the exhaust.

It is possible that whatever oil had leaked from your car over a period was sitting in the belly pan and held there by the porous fibre.

When you parked on the steep incline for a while, the oil may have leaked back and onto the ground.

The fact that you parked for 20 hours with no leaks is a positive thing. Keeping an eye to it should be OK for now. If you have no record of the timing belt being replaced, plan to do that at your independent garage soon. When the covers are stripped there may be less of the seals leaking than you think.

There is one more thing you could check out, and it may make a good difference to your leaks. Check if your oil dipstick is popping up, it's the one on the right near the battery, not the ATF one farther back. If this is popping up it means your crankcase is under pressure. In turn this means your PCV valve or maybe your EGR valve is not working properly. These items are an easy and cheap fix. If you attend to them the oil will not be getting forced out of your seals by pressure that is not supposed to be there if everything was working properly.

Joe

[b3lha]

When the puddles stop appearing on the garage floor, it means it's time to add some more oil to your engine.



Just kidding. But do check the level on the dipstick!

The first thing to do is remove the underpan and try to figure out where the oil is leaking from. It could be as simple as a loose oil filter.

[Bailey]

ha ha, I did panic when i saw no oil on garage floor...so I did check the dip stick immediately. Believe it or not, (If you knew me you could believe it) I am having a hard time reading the dip stick, the oil is so clean and seems thin so is hard to read the dip stick. One side of the dip stick seems dry, the other side shows oil below the full line. I will have my husband check it when he gets home.

I know next to nothing about cars but suspected parking nose up , tail down, may have created some oil run-off also. I will keep eye on it and also watch for dip stick popping up. After I put the paper under my car, I decided to take it for a car wash a couple of blocks from my house, then before I knew it I ended up on the interstate and took a fast 25 mile drive out of my way and circled back to the car wash...
My car seems happiest at around 80.

[Chris]

I have done much research with synthetic oils and working in a national parts retail house I get many informative booklets addressing these very issues. The reason this leaking tendency happens is related to the better fluid dynamic properties of the synthetic oil versus conventional (thusly better lubricating properties as well), and the fact that the physical molecule size of the synthetic oil is smaller than conventional. This has an effect on older gaskets and seals. Typically if you have a seal or gasket with just a minor small wetness appearance to it, but its not leaking on conventional oil, it WILL seep synthetic very easily. If you replace the older gaskets and seals with new ones and run synthetic, typically it will solve your problems. Since you had a leak to begin with, it turned into a bit more of an attention getter. The leak should probably be addressed anyways. Replace the seals or gaskets on your next major service and you should be golden for 60-100k miles. My valve cover gaskets seem to only last every other timing belt change and I change my oil pump "O" ring every time I do a T-belt.

Hope this helps. (Most of my information was provided to me by Mobile Oil Corp/Mobile1, British Petroleum/Castrol Syntec, and Royal Purple.)

[Bailey]

thanks for all the help and information.

[kwren]

Originally Posted by Bailey

ha ha, After I put the paper under my car, I decided to take it for a car wash a couple of blocks from my house, then before I knew it I ended up on the interstate and took a fast 25 mile drive out of my way and circled back to the car wash...
My car seems happiest at around 80.

I think all SVXs do!!

Keith

[kwren]

Originally Posted by svxistentialist

There is one more thing you could check out, and it may make a good difference to your leaks. Check if your oil dipstick is popping up, it's the one on the right near the battery, not the ATF one farther back. If this is popping up it means your crankcase is under pressure. In turn this means your PCV valve or maybe your EGR valve is not working properly. These items are an easy and cheap fix. If you attend to them the oil will not be getting forced out of your seals by pressure that is not supposed to be there if everything was working properly.

Joe

Where can we find the information on the cheap and easy fixes of the PVC and EGR valves??
Thanks,
Keith

[svxistentialist]

Originally Posted by kwren

Where can we find the information on the cheap and easy fixes of the PVC and EGR valves??
Thanks,
Keith

Always with the hard questions Keith You got me there.

Actually, I don't know. Maybe you need to buy a $250 WSM and then it is easy peasy and cheap. I think we don't actually have these listed as How-Tos, so possibly somebody has them in their locker, and that's what I'm remembering.

http://www.subaru-svx.net/photos/files/How-To/14302.pdf

Above is how to tackle the PCV valve, and that's what I would do first if your dipstick is popping from the tube.

If I can find the EGR valve info I'll get back to you.

Joe.

{PCV stands for Positive Crankcase Ventilation, so PVC is not the right term, even though that's what the guys use in the How-To. }

[SVX92-97]

If I were you, I would bring to Toms (svxfiles) house in Wiley Ford, WV. just over the Maryland line and have him take care of everything it may need. Im from Connecticut, and I left my car with him at the Reading Meet which Earl (Ensteele) so kindly drove down to Toms house for me. How far is it from your place to Toms. Piece of mind is worth more than the cost of gas and time to get it there.

[SVX92-97]

Just d the distance from Des Moines, IA to Toms in Wiley Ford, WV. 897 miles 14HR 57Min Id still do it if I

[kwren]

Originally Posted by svxistentialist

Always with the hard questions Keith You got me there.

Actually, I don't know. Maybe you need to buy a $250 WSM and then it is easy peasy and cheap. I think we don't actually have these listed as How-Tos, so possibly somebody has them in their locker, and that's what I'm remembering.

http://www.subaru-svx.net/photos/files/How-To/14302.pdf

Above is how to tackle the PCV valve, and that's what I would do first if your dipstick is popping from the tube.

If I can find the EGR valve info I'll get back to you.

Joe.

{PCV stands for Positive Crankcase Ventilation, so PVC is not the right term, even though that's what the guys use in the How-To. }

crooked wrench thing.

Looked up the other one at subaruparts.com and showed a bunch of parts.


Thanks for the information. Basically, I need to know the location and what these things do.

I still have the major problem with my SVX. It starts great... runs great for a bit... i/2 mile to a couple of miles and then suddenly sounds like a roar and acts like half the engine fell off. Complete loss of power but doesn't die and keeps running. I can drive it even 75 mph on a straight of way but the slighest up grade it will slow to 25-30 mph. No power. I had a couple of threads about it that explains it and a lot of response from the good people on the form. It will have been at the Subaru dealer for 4 weeks tomorrow. I spent 2 days and asked a lot of questions here before taking it in.They have had much conversation back and forth with the factory! Bless their hearts, they are so nice to me and they refuse to give up!!

Not that I couldn't have worked it out with a lot of prayer and help from everyone here but it was a matter of renting a car and working in my cold garage or just taking it in and pay them to check it out while driving the loaner and I chose the loaner. Snow was coming
I am happy to let them continue for a few more days and then my baby is coming home . I have always been able to fix it myself, and with my umpteen questions for all the great people on this form, I should have gathered enough information to do that! About another week of the nice, but not a SVX loaner, I should be ready to tow it home and get it completed!
We still have snow and more snowing next week!!
I am talking Tacoma WA With April about gone.???

We usually have one snow every 2 years that the rain melts the same day, or the next day!
Anyway, pray for some warm weather for me in about one week!
Will be fun to find out what is really the problem with it!!
Thanks again for all the information, everyone!
Take care,
Keith