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  #1  
Old 03-24-2002, 08:45 AM
sk8ing19
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Brakes

Okay so it is time to have my brakes done, so now the question is ceramic or semi-metalic pads? Other then the black dust associated with semi-metalic pads, what makes the ceramic better?

thanks,
Chris

Last edited by sk8ing19; 03-24-2002 at 05:12 PM.
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Old 03-24-2002, 09:45 AM
MoreIBNR MoreIBNR is offline
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Re: Breaks

The word is "brakes," unless you break them - then they are broken.

Quote:
Originally posted by sk8ing19
Okay so it is time to have my breaks done, so now the question is ceramic or semi-metalic pads? Other then the black dust associated with semi-metalic pads, what makes the ceramic better?

thanks,
Chris
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  #3  
Old 03-24-2002, 02:30 PM
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OE pads are softer and therefore more quiet, they get away with the softer pads because they don't warranty the life of the pad. Just keep your back to the wall when you buy them, OE pads are normally the most expensive option.

Semi-mets are you're next choice. They can be noisy. I don't care who makes them they're all going to squeal sooner or later. If you're driving the stop an go on Wadsworth everyday I'll give you a buck every day they don't squeal and you can give me one every day they do... Don't get me wrong, they are good pads, stop well, long life, etc.

Ceramics are a recent development and so far seem to be working well. I'm not certain at this point if our customers are more attuned to the fact that disc pads make noise or if the pads are as quiet as the manufacturer says. Either way I'm not getting any complaints from my customers. Price for ceramics will be close to OE pads but should last much longer.

Remember, these are generic statements and not indicative of the worst/cheapest available parts. Use name brand parts and stay away from the cheap stuff at Checkers and Autozone.

Beav
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Old 03-25-2002, 06:35 AM
sk8ing19
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MoreIBNR,

I know it was just very early when I wrote that post. Sorry.

Later,
Chris
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Old 03-25-2002, 09:54 PM
MoreIBNR MoreIBNR is offline
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Hey, you don't need to apologize to me for that. Besides, it gave me my laugh for the day.
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Old 03-26-2002, 04:50 AM
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Beav, what are your thoughts on grade of pad in respect of disc (rotor) scoring and warping.

It would appear that harder pads must be more likely to score the disc surface. The more important aspect though is heat and possible deforming of the disc as a result which is reported as a problem with the SVX. In respect of pad wear surely pads are cheaper than discs.

In order to stop from given conditions a given amount of power must be absorbed and dissipated in the form of heat. As I see it the coefficient of friction does not alter but the pressure required is directly related to the hardness off the material. This should mean no difference in respect of heat generated but is this born out in practice. I am aware of the theory regarding pad hardness and fade when applied to racing conditions but what is your experience with the ordinary road car?

Thanks, Trevor.
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Old 03-26-2002, 06:07 AM
MoreIBNR MoreIBNR is offline
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I would think that scoring would result from hard spots in the pad - not so much a pad of uniform hardness (if there were such a thing).

The harder pads will certainly wear the rotors more quickly.

On warping - I am only guessing here, but again I don't see that being significantly affected by the hardness of the pad. Would harder pads generate more or less heat to the rotor in stopping?
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  #8  
Old 03-26-2002, 06:21 AM
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I don't think you're going to find pads made for OE applications that are hard enough to withstand racing's rigors, especially not on a 3600 pound car. If pads are available for the SVX that could take that abuse they would definitely be unsafe when cold.

The problem I see with rotors on the average street car is many are just cheap junk. Let's face it, drums and rotors are a hose job in the first place. They aren't rocket science, they don't require nth degree machining (if they did, could a 16 year old kid with five minutes instruction refinish a rotor?) Tha amount of metal used is negligible. I don't see much reason for most rotors to cost more than $20 - $30. I remember only a few years ago I could still purchase rotors for my 124 Spider for $6 each. Some Chryslers I work on will show a small pocket or hole, if you will, that becomes a huge crater when machined. Nothing but the highest of quality here. The worst rotors I've seen come from China, Mexico and South America. The best come from USA and Canada and Italy. IMHO, of course...

My take on rotor warpage is most are cheaply cast and have high amounts of density variation. Nothing you can do except constantly resurface them. The next problem is the way some people drive. You and I both know that smoothness and consistency wins the race, but you can't convince the average 'hot shoe' on the street of that. That doesn't matter to them anyway. They want to be the street version of what they watch on t.v. and it's not so much about being fast as it's about "Look at Me!" If the car can't take their abuse and it's maintenance costs cut too deep into the party fund it's a POS.

Most OEs are now recommending that if the rotor surface isn't warped and any grooving present is less than .060" deep (GM spec) machining is not to be done. I guess the grooves are another way to give the rotor more surface area, in their eyes. Let's face it, the brakes don't perform at their best until the rotor surface is highly polished by the pads and the pads themselves have baked their resins.

Scoring can be the result of road grit, pieces of the rotor embedding in the pad and the particles of sintered bronze, ceramics and iron (whatever they use today...)

Oh well, I've got more to say but I'm under the gun to go to work.

Beav
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