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  #31  
Old 08-03-2005, 07:48 PM
SVXtra
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Our government is in such denial over marijuana that physicians are even discouraged from prescribing Marinol which is basically synthetic delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol or delta-9-THC. Yes the stuff that gets you stoned. Which has been found to be extremely effective [under a physicians care] is treating anorexia, nausea ,chemotherapy and glaucoma just to name a few.

Last edited by SVXtra; 08-03-2005 at 07:56 PM.
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  #32  
Old 08-03-2005, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PA_SVX
I think everyone knows where I stand on this, so why incite a flame war over every valid point I make. I don't think it's pertinent on a car forum. We should stick to the basics; cars, hot babes (guys for Ken and Kelli ), hot cars, and really hot babes.

I don't exactly know where you stand other than that you are a police officer.

I guess I must have missed this topic in a previous thread seeing as how intense some of you are, but I'd like to see you make these valid points. and as to its pertinence, its in the off topic forum, therefor... its a pertinent as they come.

I think we also need to understand the difference between a flame war, and a discussion. Discussions involve facts where typically most people who are involved or reading it learn something new. Flame wars are name calling with a lack of respect. I think we all have respect of each other so I see no reason why this will turn into a flame war.
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  #33  
Old 08-04-2005, 07:01 AM
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Royal Tiger Royal Tiger is offline
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Greg, if you look back at some of the other times things like this were "discussed" you'll see what I and others mean. It usually leads to off hand name calling and other types of insulting positional stands. I'll take a pass.

P.S. I'm off to the very beginning of the Supercar thread for some recreational eye therapy
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  #34  
Old 08-04-2005, 09:17 AM
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  #35  
Old 08-04-2005, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PA_SVX
I think everyone knows where I stand on this, so why incite a flame war over every valid point I make. I don't think it's pertinent on a car forum. We should stick to the basics; cars, hot babes (guys for Ken and Kelli ), hot cars, and really hot babes.
This is the "Off Topic" forum and the discussion has been (suprisingly) civil.

Me and a few other mods have been watching closely to make sure it doesn't get out of hand.

Doug
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  #36  
Old 08-04-2005, 09:56 AM
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  #37  
Old 08-04-2005, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ensteele
I'll Smoke to that!

Fixed it...
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  #38  
Old 08-04-2005, 04:18 PM
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The mods look bored. Time to add some gasoline and a light to this thread:

PA_SVX - oink, oink ya dirty hog

Landmule - go back to your barn and eat some hay.

Ensteele - you filthy svx cult leader of WA..i'm sure you'd sacrifice that company that installed teh 5 speed for another 3 svx's wouldn't ya

Mohrds - I gots my hands on your house man and I ain't ever letting go!!!!!!!

Noir - ya sugarcube eating mullethead, i shall put a bow on your tail and make you prance around like a reindeer.

so there, flames in the thread.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

labels are great. it's amazing how someone who injures himself/herself due to negligence should be entitled to monetary compensation because they weren't informed aboot the potential hazards of using said product.

but does anyone know the numbers of people who smoke nowadays? honestly, i think the campaigns maybe working. i remember 10 years ago, i had many friends that smoked. also had co-workers that smoked and saw people smoking outside in large packs . nowadays, i only have a few friends and co-workers that smoke (many quit) and the packs smoking outside has dwindled to 2-3 if even that.

now i know that there are new regulations around that ban smoking in high traffic areas, on property, inside of restaurants and such, but are there any numbers showing if the consumption of cigarettes has increased or decreased in the US?

BTW - Landshark smokes wang along with his ciggy.
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  #39  
Old 08-04-2005, 09:42 PM
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Quote:
now i know that there are new regulations around that ban smoking in high traffic areas, on property, inside of restaurants and such, but are there any numbers showing if the consumption of cigarettes has increased or decreased in the US?






Cigarette smoking is directly linked to well over 400,000 deaths due to cancer, cardiovascular disease and stroke every year in the U.S. In the U. S. less than 10 per cent of the people who quit smoking for a day remain abstinent one year later. With only 2 or perhaps 3 % of smokers succeeding in there attempt to quit. With the mental withdrawls often continuing for months after the physical withdrawls have subsided. Cigarette smoking is considered among one of the most addicting of all drugs. One third to one half of occasional cigarette smokers graduate to physical dependence. There are approximately 1 billion cigarette smokers in the world today and approximately 3 million people over the world die each year from smoking related illnesses. Most tobacco-dependent persons never achieve lasting abstinence and half die prematurely of tobacco related disease. Still, major gains have been made in reducing smoking prevalence over the past three decades. Overall, smoking has dropped from 40% of the U.S. population over the age of 18 to about 24% since the mid-1970s. I hope this helps to answer your question.

Last edited by SVXtra; 08-04-2005 at 09:57 PM.
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  #40  
Old 08-04-2005, 10:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SVXtra
blah, blah, blah, blah.

Eureka, here we have it:

Overall, smoking has dropped from 40% of the U.S. population over the age of 18 to about 24% since the mid-1970s. I hope this helps to answer your question.

this was what i was looking for. thanks.
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  #41  
Old 08-04-2005, 11:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mohrds
Yet our government tries like hell.

The last extension cord I bought had so many safety notices, warning labels, and instructions (All in multiple languages), that it took me a half hour to get them all off!

I won't even start on all the stuff that was plastered all over my new lawn mower...

Doug

I have two pennies for ya, this protection from peoples own stupidity is what created the stupidity in the first place... cut your finger off with your lawn mower that didn't have a sticker on it and get a million dollars...you have 9 more fingers to lose at a million dollars a pop...
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  #42  
Old 08-04-2005, 11:38 PM
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I find it comical how commonly believed it is that a law will have any significant impact on drug use in light of the fact that drugs, (particularly cigarettes,) will outright kill you. They make you stink, turn your teeth brown, make your lungs weak, and will eventually give you cancer. If that doesn't deter you, what will? A law?

I think they should start putting guarantees on the packs. "Guaranteed to give you cancer in 12 months." If you don't get cancer right away, they'll have a doctor to give it to you. I think that might have a impact.

I wonder how significantly the misuse of illegal drugs would be reduced if they were simply packaged like conventional over-the-counter medicine with proper dosages indicated. That further makes me wonder if there's a niche market for dealers who provided such a well packaged product. "Let's see... Two grams, serves four. No calories. No saturated fat. No preservatives. Dang... Kinda makes this stuff sound like it's good for you."
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  #43  
Old 08-04-2005, 11:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UberRoo
I find it comical how commonly believed it is that a law will have any significant impact on drug use in light of the fact that drugs, (particularly cigarettes,) will outright kill you. They make you stink, turn your teeth brown, make your lungs weak, and will eventually give you cancer. If that doesn't deter you, what will? A law?

I think they should start putting guarantees on the packs. "Guaranteed to give you cancer in 12 months." If you don't get cancer right away, they'll have a doctor to give it to you. I think that might have a impact.

I wonder how significantly the misuse of illegal drugs would be reduced if they were simply packaged like conventional over-the-counter medicine with proper dosages indicated. That further makes me wonder if there's a niche market for dealers who provided such a well packaged product. "Let's see... Two grams, serves four. No calories. No saturated fat. No preservatives. Dang... Kinda makes this stuff sound like it's good for you."

while we're at it, let's ban fried and fatty foods, anything with sugar, alchohol, caffeine, etc. its all bad for you, so let just make it ALL illegal. then everyone would live long, healthy, and miserable lives!
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  #44  
Old 08-05-2005, 01:22 PM
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Ya know that if they banned sex and artificial incimination (sp?) then in 100 or so years people would quit dying? It would not only eliminate human stupidity, injuries, and death, but would save millions of mammals, reptiles, birds, insects, and plants every single year that die needlessly, and slowly the world could come back into ballance...

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  #45  
Old 08-05-2005, 04:19 PM
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The problem with using laws to try and fix social problems is that it rarely succeeds. Laws are supposed to help regulate the dealings or interactions between two or more people. My rights end where yours begin, eh? Finding that exact borderline is the tricky part that laws are supposed to help delineate.

Some things are very simple to define, like if some stranger steals your car from your driveway. Other things get really fuzzy: I can buy my favourite headache pills in Canada without a prescription, but in USA and Germany I first have to go to the doctor and get his permission along with a prescription. Why? The answer escapes me. But the end result of this particular law is clear to me – much higher costs for society as a whole. I take the doctor’s limited time away from someone who is really sick, my medical insurance pays for the doctor’s visit, the pharmacy fee for filling a prescription also has to be paid, and then I finally get to pay for the tablets themselves. Does this law really result in less crime, or rather, in less friction in the interaction of me with other members of society? Nope, not a bit. It just makes everything cost a lot more both in terms of time and money. (In case you’re wondering, I’m talking about Tylenol #1, which has 8mg of codeine. At the first sign of oncoming migraine, about 6-10 times a year, I pop two and get in bed if possible, or find a dark quiet spot. Most times, headache goes away before full blown migraine develops.)

The smoking issue, with second-hand smoke, is clearly an area where two or more people are interacting and thus becomes a matter for the law in public places. Alcohol, however, doesn’t directly affect nearby non-imbibing people, yet is also rigorously controlled in the US (and elsewhere) and sometimes I’m completely baffled. I spent some time in Williamston, NC and had a real eye-opener there. Seems I was in a semi-dry county, which meant that I could order beer and wine at the bar in the Holiday Inn, but no hard liquor. I could, however, drive to the nearest liquor store (15 min away), buy a bottle and bring it with me, openly, into the bar. The barkeeper would happily sell me mix and munchies!

So… what does this have to do with marijuana? Just that if you pass laws you have to be prepared to enforce them. That means more police, more oversight, more bureaucracy and lots more cost. The second and perhaps more important aspect is acceptance by the general population. No matter how good your enforcement, the law has little meaning if the vast majority of the people don’t agree that it is a good thing to be desired and willingly followed. Best example of that is Prohibition. Didn’t work too well, eh?

Right now, I think we’re going through another, longer period of Prohibition. As the costs keep going up, with dwindling “returns on investment”, I suspect there may be a major re-thinking of policy. Just suppose, for a moment, that marijuana got legalized, taxed and controlled like alcohol or tobacco. What would the end result be? More or less crime? More or less costs to individuals and society as a whole? That is what government officials should be debating.

The role of Government is not to become Big Brother or Mommy and ensure that I eat all my vegetables. I think Jefferson said it better than I ever could:

"Shall we mould our citizens to the law, or the law to our citizens? And in solving this question their peculiar character is an element not to be neglected."
--Thomas Jefferson to John Quincy Adams, 1817. ME 15:145

"The laws... which must effect [a people's happiness] must flow from their own habits, their own feelings, and the resources of their own minds. No stranger to these could possibly propose regulations adapted to them. Every people have their own particular habits, ways of thinking, manners, etc., which have grown up with them from their infancy, are become a part of their nature, and to which the regulations which are to make them happy must be accommodated."
--Thomas Jefferson to William Lee, 1817. ME 15:101

The designation in the form, "ME 15:145," refers to the location in The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, (Memorial Edition) Lipscomb and Bergh, editors.
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