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  #31  
Old 06-30-2005, 07:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red95svx
I'm not a fan of huge vehicles OR of wasting resources. But I am a fan of freedom of choice.



Dave
People are dumb, when was the last time you saw a comercial for the Chevy Aveo? It isn't a choice when people are dumb and fall hook line and sinker into giving car companies plenty of profit! If you took a survey on what vehicle gets the best mileage in Chevy's showroom right now I'll guess that less than 5% of Americans would know. Choice is one thing but information isn't free.
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  #32  
Old 06-30-2005, 07:42 AM
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I've seen one small dealership ad in the newspaper with a headline introducing the Tribeca, which is utterly pointless when the public at large has no clue (nor wish to know) what a Tribeca is.

Side note: The nearest Suby dealership to me (about 1-1/2 hrs. drive) has started running modest ads in our little, twice-weekly newspaper. Last Sunday's five-pound Atlanta Journal-Constitution, on the other hand, had not one Subaru dealership ad. I'll be seeing as many Tribecas as SVXs on the streets of Atlanta.

dcb
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  #33  
Old 06-30-2005, 07:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benebob
People are dumb, when was the last time you saw a comercial for the Chevy Aveo?
Speaking of image and the need to compensate...
When the Aveo first came out, what were the commercials about? How it only "looks small" (the commercial with the tiny basketball players comes to mind). People are so stuck on the size issue, and so dumb, that you can actually market a tiny econobox as being big...
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  #34  
Old 06-30-2005, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benebob
So they should follow Toyota's lead. Sell 40,000 or so horrible for the enviroment Prius' that have batteries that will need to be disposed off in 10 years time enviromentally equal to the amount of dumping 1000 gallons of oil into the ground water while the stupid Americans think you're a "green" friendly company all the while selling 9 SUVs that don't meet the archaic CAFE standards for what they are PASSENGER vehicles. Long before all this, Subaru was looked at as an enviromental leader (which is why they were bought and developed the highest owner loyalty). Remember they were and are the only auto company in the world to achieve a 0 emissions factory. Yes that is 0 emissions. Personally, I won't buy from a company that skirts around CAFE standards but then again, maybe I have standards unlike the rest of america. If that's the case I'm sure W. wants me to leave my nookie in so he doesn't have to resort to using the patriot act to shutting me up.
I actually agree with you about the Prius. It's overcomplicated and dumb. Why would you make such a thing when diesels already get that kind of mileage? I know that there's a sort of stigma against diesels in this country (and I experienced first-hand why), but come on.
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  #35  
Old 06-30-2005, 08:03 AM
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Does the Forester count as a SUV? The wife wanted one for the way it looked and the interior room, especially how tall the rear cargo area was. We traded a 1998 Legacy Wagon on it in March 2000. As for my "pig-mobile" (that's funny for an obvious reason ) I have taken in off road [check my locker] and need to be able to go to work no matter the weather. I haven't towed with it, but I use the 4 wheel drive as much as I can. I'm hoping to take it back to the mountains for some off-roadness in August. Yes the mpg is only 18 or so driving back and forth to work, but it would cost more to have the SUV for when I need it, and a small back and forth to work car when you figure in cost for purchase, insurance, etc... I miss having the SVX, but not because it got better gas milage then the Pathfinder. When I finally get that S4, I'm sure it won't be getting 20 mpg! I agree spending $80k for a Range Rover is stupid. You be better off buying a 911 for that!
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  #36  
Old 06-30-2005, 08:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Pockets
I actually agree with you about the Prius. It's overcomplicated and dumb. Why would you make such a thing when diesels already get that kind of mileage? I know that there's a sort of stigma against diesels in this country (and I experienced first-hand why), but come on.
I think it has to do with that greasy fill up. Remember though 14 years ago there was a Civic that got 55mpg on a regular gas engine and the ac worked when stuck in traffic.

PA SVX no the Forester is classified as a car by CAFE standards so unlike the CR-V which is a truck. As for your Pathfinder, again where is the need? I could take a $100 Loyale wagon anywhere you could go off road and I would be much safer going up and down grades in it. As for winter. Yeah, we tend to have over 3 feet of snow on a regular basis here in PA don't we? Most FWD cars should be fine in anything less provided you aren't running the wheels and tires that come on new cars. Then again, 4wd makes people not need to learn how to drive in bad weather. Personally, I'd take your average RWD boat driver from Buffalo NY in the mid 70s in a 73 Dodge with snow tires against any hummer driver in a snow challenge.
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  #37  
Old 06-30-2005, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Pockets
It's overcomplicated and dumb.
Given their complication, it'll be interesting to see what sort of mechanical issues arise with hybrids as they age and wear. I think I'd opt for a 100% electric, plug-in-to-recharge car for simplicity's sake, in spite of the limitations in power and range.

The manufacture of lead-acid batteries is a nasty business, I'm sure, but at least the components are almost 100% reusuable. Hard to see a compelling environmental concern there, so long as folks aren't tossing their discards into a ditch.

dcb
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  #38  
Old 06-30-2005, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcarrb
The manufacture of lead-acid batteries is a nasty business, I'm sure, but at least the components are almost 100% reusuable. Hard to see a compelling environmental concern there, so long as folks aren't tossing their discards into a ditch.

dcb
You just stated why it is an enviromental concern. The recycling and manufacturing process is horrible!!! Better than tossing in a ditch but not by much.
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  #39  
Old 06-30-2005, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benebob
People are dumb.... Choice is one thing but information isn't free.

Being ignorant is a choice. The information is out there, esp. if you have internet access.

And as far as Loyales go, they are too underpowered for me. Merging on the highway while climbing a steep on-ramp produced some rather scary moments....as well as a line of angry drivers behind me. You don't always need a ton of power, but man is it good to have when you need it!!




Dave
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  #40  
Old 06-30-2005, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcarrb
Given their complication, it'll be interesting to see what sort of mechanical issues arise with hybrids as they age and wear. I think I'd opt for a 100% electric, plug-in-to-recharge car for simplicity's sake, in spite of the limitations in power and range.
all the complexities of a modern internal cumbustion engine, in addition to the complexities of an electrical generator/motor/flywheel system that are supposed to work together seemlessly. uh, no thanks.



what happens when your hybrid breaks down in the middle of nowhere, and gets towed to the local garage?

"hey Jim Bob, this here car from the future ain't workin'!"
"is it the electrical stuff, or the motory part?"
"i dunno Billy Joe. hand me the big hammer and some lamp cord. we'll get R done!"
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  #41  
Old 06-30-2005, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Landshark
what happens when your hybrid breaks down in the middle of nowhere, and gets towed to the local garage?
Yeah, really. Think of the trouble people relate here just finding a decent shop to work on their SVX.

dcb
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  #42  
Old 06-30-2005, 10:05 AM
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  #43  
Old 06-30-2005, 10:38 AM
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Well I know I have fit more stuff into my Pathfinder then ever fit in either of our two Legacy wagons. It has more ground clearence and has a low range for when I was driving it in deep mud up to the frame rails last year. I like our Forester, my wife loves it, but I highly doubt it would have made it through the same trails I went through. Those people who never drive thier uber-SUV's on the GRASS because it gets it dirty don't need one, but I at least try to use it for what it was designed for. Did I need to drive those trails? No. Do people need 62" plasma TV's? No. Do you need a SVX when a Civic 4 door gets better gas milage and is more pratical? No. We can go on and on with this one. When you move from the US to the Ukraine and they tell you to drive this Lada, in only grey, with no air, I'm sure you'll re-think the whole your stupid for driving a SUV theme. Freedom is about choice. Plain and simple. Want to be an ignorant liberal democrat? That's your right. Want to be a self absorbed tree hugger? Go ahead. Want to be a red neck? It's all you buddy. I'd hate to live in Utopia where everyone looked alike, talked alike, and thought alike.
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  #44  
Old 06-30-2005, 10:56 AM
red95svx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Landshark
"hey Jim Bob, this here car from the future ain't workin'!"
"is it the electrical stuff, or the motory part?"
"i dunno Billy Joe. hand me the big hammer and some lamp cord. we'll get R done!"

That's good stuff!




Dave
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  #45  
Old 06-30-2005, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benebob
You just stated why it is an enviromental concern. The recycling and manufacturing process is horrible!!! Better than tossing in a ditch but not by much.
Soooo,,,if internal combustion & lead acid batteries are doomed, what is the next best option????????? Power cells???? hydrogen combustion????

Some SUV/PU owners are mainly concerned with saftey, THEIRS!!!!!!!!

Have you aired your concerns to members of Congress?

I have a Silverado that I could live without, however, it's the car my wife drives & I want her as safe as possible.

You have many, many good posts, I am surprised at your stand on big vehicles. How do you justify your racing efforts compared to granny going shopping in her 8 foot high Ford Super Cab?
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