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  #76  
Old 01-22-2005, 12:52 PM
Shadow248 Shadow248 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Chiketkd
Grand Am's and Grand Prix's aren't all that bad. They don't have the rattly fiberglass body like the camaro-bird, and have decent performance for fwd cars.
Actually, it's the C4 corvette that had the fiberglass body problems. The 3rd and 4th gen f-bodies had steel and plastic, the 5th gens are all SMC composite. Though i'm sure the 3rd gens that still run these days probably rattle like mad.

Both Mandi's Grand Am and my GTP felt like BMWs compared to the four different SVX's i've ridden in.

Quote:
Originally posted by Landhsark
my SVX is going to need its second repair in 3 years. first, a bad $80 coil pack, and now a $35 power antenna mast. not too shabby. at 70,000 miles, my old Lumina was literally falling apart.
My GTP had 132,000 miles on it when i sold it, and the only thing i fixed on it was the intake manifold gasket. Of course, it needed timing belts and brakes and such...and they (the belts) were expensive because of the POS Honda DOHC motor...but that's considered routine. Mandi's Grand Am is approaching 60k and has needed nothing but a lightbulb (i have the maintenance records from the dealer it was serviced at with the previous owner).

So what?

Quote:
Originally posted by NapaBavarian
If the safty of a given car dosn't matter why dont we get rid of seat belts, after all they don't gaurantee you will survive and in a few rare cases may worsten the injury. Same for airbags, if misused they can kill(mostly the old ones), so lets can those so ignorant people dont hurt themselves. Hey, non of the safty features will mean that you will survive, get rid of all of them and make cars less expensive!
The chances of a person getting struck by lightning are less than the chances of a person taking a crap and finding a $100 bill in the toilet, but do you stand near tall metal structures during thunderstorms? I sure don't.

Quote:
Originally posted by NapaBavarian
It may not bother you that acording to hwysaftey.org the driver fatality rate in mandys car is 150% of average and your bird is 300% of average. You have every right to drive what you want, but you specifically said that GM is just as safe as anything else before you said it dosn't matter anyway.
Quote:
Originally posted by thundering02
I kinda hate stepping in now but are they comparing these numbers to the types of idiots driving them...? namely camaro-birds are generally redneck beer drinkin leadfooted types, where as the the smaller (or less powerful) cars that have smaller slower accidents to cause less damage in the accednt un less involved with the aforementioned. (btw no offense to anoybody just more of a generalisation)
Nuff said.

Compare the fatality rate for the WRX STi to the rate for the regular Impreza, same concept.

Quote:
Originally posted by NapaBavarian
I don't come up with an opinion and look for evidence to back it up, I look at a broad range of evidence, hopefully from multiple sources, and spend time geting to understand it, then come to an unbiased conclusion.
And this is what everyone should do. The problem is, to form a truly un-biased opinion, you need to get your information from un-biased sources. The internet is just not the way to do that.
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  #77  
Old 01-22-2005, 01:02 PM
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NapaBavarian NapaBavarian is offline
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Thundering- I won't argue with that point, and that the higher power of the F bodies makes them harder to handle, but I'm also taking into account crash testing on the Grand Am, I didn't find any F body crash tests. Also, to triple the fatality rate as in the Fire Bird is a huge jump to atest only to the driver, and that is just the Firebird, the Camaro and Camaro convertible are even worse- So in the F bodies for every average fatality there would need to be 2 more caused by the drivers with CR (cranial rectitus, aka head up their ass) and as many dumb drivers are out there I still believe that they are the minority.

SPORTS CARS: MIDSIZE
Model
years
DRIVER DEATH RATES
All crashes
Multiple
Single
Roll

Ford Mustang convertible
1994-97
97 (68-133)
37
60
26

Ford Mustang
1994-97
138 (114-164)
52
86
46

Pontiac Firebird
1994-97
267 (217-325)
88
179
69

Chevrolet Camaro convertible
1994-97
290 (189-425)
33
256
167

Chevrolet Camaro
1994-97
308 (271-347)
93
214
104
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  #78  
Old 01-22-2005, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Shadow248

The chances of a person getting struck by lightning are less than the chances of a person taking a crap and finding a $100 bill in the toilet, but do you stand near tall metal structures during thunderstorms? I sure don't.



Sidestep the question?
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  #79  
Old 01-22-2005, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Shadow248


Nuff said.

Compare the fatality rate for the WRX STi to the rate for the regular Impreza, same concept.
Then we gotta copmare V6 and V8 F bodies too
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  #80  
Old 01-22-2005, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Shadow248

Actually, it's the C4 corvette that had the fiberglass body problems. The 3rd and 4th gen f-bodies had steel and plastic, the 5th gens are all SMC composite. Though i'm sure the 3rd gens that still run these days probably rattle like mad.

Both Mandi's Grand Am and my GTP felt like BMWs compared to the four different SVX's i've ridden in.
Thats funny, I never thought an SVX was suposed to feel like a BMW, mine felt like a cross between a mercedes and a cat (the traction part)
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Wanted...your busted SVX! Watch out Earl, I'm comin to getchya
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  #81  
Old 01-22-2005, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Shadow248


And this is what everyone should do. The problem is, to form a truly un-biased opinion, you need to get your information from un-biased sources. The internet is just not the way to do that.

I have gotten my information from many different areas, you still havn't shown us an area across the board where GM OUT PERFORMES the other makes in safty.
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Wanted...your busted SVX! Watch out Earl, I'm comin to getchya
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  #82  
Old 01-22-2005, 01:38 PM
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http://www.sixwise.com/index.asp?Pag...14&v=836399220

GM dosn't have one car on the safest picks side, but they are all over the least safe picks side. These bastards all hate GM and just give them poor marks because they are biased against GM, it has nothing to do with GMs track record.


Edit- those effing basterds even had the nerve to put the death trap Subaru Impreza on the safe pick side!
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Wanted...your busted SVX! Watch out Earl, I'm comin to getchya
Return of the Pissed Platypus! X2
My dream (other than a pearlie)
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I decided to quit drinking, but I didn't like it so I quit not drinking.
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  #83  
Old 01-22-2005, 04:35 PM
Shadow248 Shadow248 is offline
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Now your really wasting your time. I've said this before - you can find information to support ANY opinion on the internet. I've been through link wars before, and it's never gotten anybody anywhere.

Quote:
Originally posted by NapaBavarian
Sidestep the question?
Did you not understand my answer?

Quote:
Originally posted by NapaBavarian
So in the F bodies for every average fatality there would need to be 2 more caused by the drivers with CR (cranial rectitus, aka head up their ass) and as many dumb drivers are out there I still believe that they are the minority.
You've obviously never been to New Jersey. Here on the east coast, drivers with CR syndrome far outnumber healthy ones.

Your numbers make sense for several reasons...the F-bodies are much more powerful than the Mustangs...thus more accidents, and more of the weaker mustangs were sold than the weaker F-bodies.

I think it's kinda dumb to look at sports car numbers...they are not built with safety as the first priority. Remember the Fiero? They didn't even think about safety until the car had already been for sale for two years. But then alot of cars were like that back in those days.

Quote:
originally posted by NapaBavarian
I have gotten my information from many different areas, you still havn't shown us an area across the board where GM OUT PERFORMES the other makes in safty.
Well then again we're even. You never showed me where any make outperforms GM in safety ACROSS THE BOARD. Nor can you, cause none do.

Edit: I should take that last comment back...i'm sure that Badonkadonk thing that you posted is probably safer than 90% of the vehicles on the road today.
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  #84  
Old 01-22-2005, 05:33 PM
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You keep telling you can find numbers, but you don't.


Any questions?
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Wanted...your busted SVX! Watch out Earl, I'm comin to getchya
Return of the Pissed Platypus! X2
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I decided to quit drinking, but I didn't like it so I quit not drinking.
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  #85  
Old 01-22-2005, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Shadow248
Now your really wasting your time. I've said this before - you can find information to support ANY opinion on the internet. I've been through link wars before, and it's never gotten anybody anywhere.



Well then again we're even. You never showed me where any make outperforms GM in safety ACROSS THE BOARD. Nor can you, cause none do.

Edit: I should take that last comment back...i'm sure that Badonkadonk thing that you posted is probably safer than 90% of the vehicles on the road today.
But GM consistantly comes in at the bottom as I have shown several times


Edit- BTW I understood- you couldn't rebut my arguement, so you sidesteped the question and filled in something else.
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Wanted...your busted SVX! Watch out Earl, I'm comin to getchya
Return of the Pissed Platypus! X2
My dream (other than a pearlie)
1.8 SVXi and a laguna blue spoiler...somewhere
I decided to quit drinking, but I didn't like it so I quit not drinking.

Last edited by NapaBavarian; 01-22-2005 at 05:39 PM.
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  #86  
Old 01-22-2005, 08:25 PM
Shadow248 Shadow248 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by NapaBavarian
You keep telling you can find numbers, but you don't.
Yup.

Quote:
Originally posted by NapaBavarian
Any questions?
Just one - why are you still arguing about this?

Quote:
Originally posted by NapaBavarian
But GM consistantly comes in at the bottom as I have shown several times
Nope.

Quote:
Originally posted by NapaBavarian
Edit- BTW I understood- you couldn't rebut my arguement, so you sidesteped the question and filled in something else
You still don't understand that answer? Man it's not that hard. Do you come from a world where there are no metaphors or something?
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  #87  
Old 01-23-2005, 01:00 AM
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oh yeah, you can do that too...
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Wanted...your busted SVX! Watch out Earl, I'm comin to getchya
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1.8 SVXi and a laguna blue spoiler...somewhere
I decided to quit drinking, but I didn't like it so I quit not drinking.
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