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  #31  
Old 12-18-2004, 04:03 PM
oab_au oab_au is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by mohrds


What are the consequences of using a custom built head spacer? I was thinking that if you lengthen the intake runners to accommodate it, you would have to re-tune the iris system, but it may be a good way to lower compression.

Just a morning coffee thought.

Doug
The problem in useing a spacer or two head gaskets, is that as the head is moved away from the piston the squish area is opened up. This is made up of the flat surface of the head and the flat surface of the piston, that comes within 0.020" to 0.030" of each other to force the end gas out into the center of the cylinder to assist in the combustion.

With this space opened up the squish action is reduced and it becomes gas space to cause detonation.

Harvey.
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  #32  
Old 12-19-2004, 09:59 PM
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So am I to infer from what has been said so far that boring and sleeving would be a bad idea? If that is the case is there anything that has to be done to strengthen up the motor to handle 15lb. of boost. I know that lowering the CR is a must. I was planning on new cylinders and forged rods, but is there anything else that needs to be considered? Help me out here this is the first time I have ever fooled with internals
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  #33  
Old 12-19-2004, 10:28 PM
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I am not completely sure but i believe our internals are al forged. Not sure but i think they are. Anyway, having a closed deck should be a definate with a high boost application.
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  #34  
Old 12-19-2004, 11:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by tomssvx
I am not completely sure but i believe our internals are al forged. Not sure but i think they are. Anyway, having a closed deck should be a definate with a high boost application.
nope, they are close but they aren't forged. I'm not exactly sure by what method they were made, but I remember they aren't forged.
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  #35  
Old 12-19-2004, 11:08 PM
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Vacuum cast me thinks like 95percent forged.
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  #36  
Old 12-20-2004, 01:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by sicksubie
So am I to infer from what has been said so far that boring and sleeving would be a bad idea? If that is the case is there anything that has to be done to strengthen up the motor to handle 15lb. of boost. I know that lowering the CR is a must. I was planning on new cylinders and forged rods, but is there anything else that needs to be considered? Help me out here this is the first time I have ever fooled with internals
use the 2.2L legacy forged pistons, the best result we had so far.
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  #37  
Old 12-20-2004, 03:02 PM
oab_au oab_au is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by sicksubie
So am I to infer from what has been said so far that boring and sleeving would be a bad idea? If that is the case is there anything that has to be done to strengthen up the motor to handle 15lb. of boost. I know that lowering the CR is a must. I was planning on new cylinders and forged rods, but is there anything else that needs to be considered? Help me out here this is the first time I have ever fooled with internals
The crank and rods are forged, the pistons are vacuum cast.

What you do to the engine, depends on what you are going to do with the car. As a every day car with the occasional blast, the internals are ok as is. The compression ratio could support 14 psi, with water injection,and staged boost.

If it is to be run for extended periods at high boost, then the pistons should be changed for the 2.2 lt turbos, forged pistons to lower the ratio to around 8.5:1. Along with spark retard, fuel mapping,etc.

Harvey.
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  #38  
Old 12-20-2004, 03:19 PM
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There was a huge discussion a while back about the 2.2lT pistons and how they are the same as the 3.3l N/A pistons. I remember that the way they got a different C/R was in the heads alone. I am not sure that the 2.2l Pistons will do much besides leave an open market for forged pistons. I even looked it up on my Mitchel On Demand CD and found that the dimensios for the psitons were the same between the 2.2 N/A and the 2.2 Turbo. Its all head work that allows for boost.
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  #39  
Old 12-20-2004, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by tomssvx
There was a huge discussion a while back about the 2.2lT pistons and how they are the same as the 3.3l N/A pistons. I remember that the way they got a different C/R was in the heads alone. I am not sure that the 2.2l Pistons will do much besides leave an open market for forged pistons. I even looked it up on my Mitchel On Demand CD and found that the dimensios for the psitons were the same between the 2.2 N/A and the 2.2 Turbo. Its all head work that allows for boost.
Yes could be, but the forged pistons would be needed for extended boost runs. Some machining on the pistons and head may be needed, to drop the ratio.

Harvey.
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  #40  
Old 12-21-2004, 12:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by tomssvx
There was a huge discussion a while back about the 2.2lT pistons and how they are the same as the 3.3l N/A pistons...
...Its all head work that allows for boost.
I'd love for this to be true just so I could say "I told you so."
Well, no. Not really.
...okay, kind of. But if I were one of the engineers designing these engines, I think I would probably change a lot of things on the heads and pistons, and because of that, Frankensteining parts doesn't often work out.
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  #41  
Old 12-21-2004, 01:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by UberRoo

I'd love for this to be true just so I could say "I told you so."
Well, no. Not really.
...okay, kind of. But if I were one of the engineers designing these engines, I think I would probably change a lot of things on the heads and pistons, and because of that, Frankensteining parts doesn't often work out.
So what exactly are you trying to say? That the pistons are not the same? I could swear i remember someone checking part #s at a dealership and finding that they are the same part numbers for both pistons. I think i remember that but if someone can tell me otherwise, you got me pegged.

Now that I think fo it, the 2.2 might even have a different stroke than the 3.3, but that i am also not sure of. I need to dig into my mitchel CD again and check it out. Someone who works at a Subie dealer needs to do some homework and put this dispute to a rest.

Tom
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  #42  
Old 12-21-2004, 03:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by oab_au


Yes could be, but the forged pistons would be needed for extended boost runs. Some machining on the pistons and head may be needed, to drop the ratio.

Harvey.
Guys I guess the 2.2L pistons have a compression of 9.5:1 and the 2.2T has 8.0:1
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  #43  
Old 12-21-2004, 03:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by tomssvx


So what exactly are you trying to say? That the pistons are not the same? I could swear i remember someone checking part #s at a dealership and finding that they are the same part numbers for both pistons. I think i remember that but if someone can tell me otherwise, you got me pegged.

Now that I think fo it, the 2.2 might even have a different stroke than the 3.3, but that i am also not sure of. I need to dig into my mitchel CD again and check it out. Someone who works at a Subie dealer needs to do some homework and put this dispute to a rest.

Tom
I went to subaru dealership over here, they told me the 2.2 L have larger diameter than SVX pistons.... but 369 checked it out in his manual, it was confirmed they are the same size...
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  #44  
Old 12-21-2004, 03:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by oab_au


The crank and rods are forged, the pistons are vacuum cast.

What you do to the engine, depends on what you are going to do with the car. As a every day car with the occasional blast, the internals are ok as is. The compression ratio could support 14 psi, with water injection,and staged boost.

If it is to be run for extended periods at high boost, then the pistons should be changed for the 2.2 lt turbos, forged pistons to lower the ratio to around 8.5:1. Along with spark retard, fuel mapping,etc.

Harvey.
Resuming the whole thing, and considering the 2.2 T pistons fit, you need to rebuild the whole engine internals, and summarizing what device should be plugged to control the sparks and fuel mapping, etc... what is the cheapest and reliable "stand alone"?
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  #45  
Old 12-21-2004, 10:21 AM
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insteadof heavy tunning the stand alone and if you are on a budget, the J&S safegaurd system could control timi9ng while using extra injectors(AIC) to controll excess fuel through a MAP sensor. Not the best way to do it but if you are on a budget, it will work.
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