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#31
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I have no argument against the idea that religion should not be a factor in hiring...or trying someone in court. The simple fact that the ten commandments are displayed in a courtroom does not constitute anything that the constitution forbids. Again, they are simply words (especially if you are a non-believer)...if you don't like the name of the courthouse, does that mean you have a right to sue the state to get the name removed? Quote:
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So many people picture God as some old man living on some cloud. God is not a man, God is not a being. What God is exactly, is something that the human mind cannot comprehend. We put a human face to him in an attempt to understand what we can't understand. God is the creator, who needed no creation. |
#32
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You claim that the human mind cannot comprehend god, correct? Yet you're defining 'god' in your very own paragraph. Christians always say god is so immense we cannot possibly understand him, yet they always say "oh it's because god wanted to" or "Oh it's just God's way" or "It's in god's plan". Heck, they have a few books dedicated to EXPLAINING god.
I see hypocrisy here. - Jim PS: I don't think that any sane person would consider 'the removal of religious symbols/text from state/federal buildings' in the same ballpark as 'denying you your religous rights'. As for banning symbols of your religion, GET USED TO IT. IT"S THE LAW. The law here is FREEDOM of religion, and state/federal buildings CANNOT have religious crap laying around. It isn't right. This country was based on christian principles (which is kinda funny, because basically all the 'good parts' of the bible that everybody agrees on are usually common in all the other religions), but it was also designed to AVOID the mixing of church and state. Here in America, we have no national religion, or even language for that matter. That's what makes it so great! We are truly the melting pot, and with so many different cultures, religions and people all in one spot we've become the most productive, powerful, and innovative nation in the world, along with the highest standard of living. If you had things YOUR way, I'm sure we'd have crosses all over the place, religious text on our parking tickets, and 100% christian rock radio. No thank ye. |
#33
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Thread for Shadow about a higher power
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The origin of the Argument by Design is a feeling that the existence of something as incredibly intricate as, say, a human is so improbable that surely it can't have come about by chance; that surely there must be some external intelligence directing things so that humans come from the chaos deliberately. But if human intelligence is so improbable, surely the existence of a mind capable of fashioning an entire universe complete with conscious beings must be immeasurably more unlikely? The approach used to argue in favor of the existence of a creator can be turned around and applied to the Creationist position. This leads us to the familiar theme of "If a creator created the universe, what created the creator?", but with the addition of spiralling improbability. The only way out is to declare that the creator was not created and just "is" (or "was"). From here we might as well ask what is wrong with saying that the universe just "is" without introducing a creator? Indeed Stephen Hawking, in his book "A Brief History of Time", explains his theory that the universe is closed and finite in extent, with no beginning or end. The Argument From Design is often stated by analogy, in the so-called Watchmaker Argument. One is asked to imagine that one has found a watch on the beach. Does one assume that it was created by a watchmaker, or that it evolved naturally? Of course one assumes a watchmaker. Yet like the watch, the universe is intricate and complex; so, the argument goes, the universe too must have a creator. The Watchmaker analogy suffers from three particular flaws, over and above those common to all Arguments By Design. Firstly, a watchmaker creates watches from pre-existing materials, whereas God is claimed to have created the universe from nothing. These two sorts of creation are clearly fundamentally different, and the analogy is therefore rather weak. Secondly, a watchmaker makes watches, but there are many other things in the world. If we walked further along the beach and found a nuclear reactor, we wouldn't assume it was created by the watchmaker. The argument would therefore suggest a multitude of creators, each responsible for a different part of creation (or a different universe, if you allow the possibility that there might be more than one). Finally, in the first part of the watchmaker argument we conclude that the watch is not part of nature because it is ordered, and therefore stands out from the randomness of nature. Yet in the second part of the argument, we start from the position that the universe is obviously not random, but shows elements of order. The Watchmaker argument is thus internally inconsistent. Apart from logical inconsistencies in the watchmaker argument, it's worth pointing out that biological systems and mechanical systems behave very differently. What's unlikely for a pile of gears is not necessarily unlikely for a mixture of biological molecules. |
#34
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We can explain that we can't understand him. Saying "it's just God's way" is not understanding him. It's accepting him. There are no books that "explain" God. That's ridiculous. Quote:
Again you try to claim that there is such thing as a person with NO religion. That is simply not true. Quote:
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PS...if I had things my way, there would be no parking tickets. |
#35
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"Experience witnesseth that ecclesiastical establishments, instead of maintaining the purity and efficacy of religion, have had a contrary operation. During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution." - James Madison, "A Memorial and Remonstrance", 1785 "I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved--the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!" - John Adams, letter to Thomas Jefferson "History I believe furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their political as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purpose." - Thomas Jefferson to Baron von Humboldt, 1813 "I cannot conceive otherwise than that He, the Infinite Father, expects or requires no worship or praise from us, but that He is even infinitely above it." - Benjamin Franklin from "Articles of Belief and Acts of Religion", Nov. 20, 1728 All of these men designed this country so that Religion would NOT be allowed to be intertwined with the government. Do you consider yourself smarter than any of these men? Do you consider your opinion to be better than theirs? Do you think that your opinion would better serve the country? Quote:
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- Jim |
#36
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Intricateness in anything is not necessarily a hardline factor of it's being apparently woven as opposed to being randomly constructed by natural forces.
My problem has always been discerning whether one is meant to separate said forces and natural phenomena from divine/spiritually driven machinations. Humankind increases it's ability to astound, as well as confound itself as progress answers questions noone asked and age-old questions remain mystery. It further separates itself from the mystery, cloaking it in the wonderful answers of science. What I say is, some people look at a cell, and see the very accidental combobulation of life. Some people see the very creation of purpose. Others see a cell. Be it random chemical and molecular bonding or precisely woven patterns, it's there as you see it before you. My argument has always been to think of the unthinkable. Imagine literally if nothing were to exist. Now that would be impossible. The only alternative is possibility. Existence. The question of existence is purpose. Discover the purpose of a thing's existence, and you will thereby be able to unravel it's intricate meaning, and feel no need to ponder ones own artificiality.
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"That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." '92 Dark Teal SVX LS-L, >146,000m 3 pedals, 5 speeds., restoration underway. 2012 Honda Insight, slow but cute. |
#37
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my cats breath smells like catfood.
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Alan 1987 928 S4 (Black) SOLD! 1997 SVX LSi (Ebony) SOLD! 2005 Legacy GT (Silver) [Cobb Stg 2+] SOLD! 1987 928 S4 (Black) SOLD! 2005 Forester XT Premium (Crystal Gray Metallic) SOLD! 2008 Lancer Evolution X MR (Apex Silver) [Cobb Stg 1+] 2015 Outlander Sport 2.4GT AWD (Mercury Gray) 2013 G37xS (Obsidian Black) |
#38
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ednote: Nothing is as chaotic as appears. Ones understanding is merely unorganized, rendering the event only apparently dischordous.
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"That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." '92 Dark Teal SVX LS-L, >146,000m 3 pedals, 5 speeds., restoration underway. 2012 Honda Insight, slow but cute. Last edited by NikFu S.; 11-10-2004 at 02:24 AM. |
#39
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See? It is extremely difficult to make generalizations about God. Quote:
You're just taking my words a bit farther than they were meant to go. Quote:
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#40
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On the issue of everyone has a religion, I would like everyone to please send donations to support the Church of Steve...and please kill a meter maid in my name.
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-Steve Member #895(the member formerly known as BurgundyBeast) 01' MSM Lexus IS300 |
#41
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Boondock's posts always include quotes from ultra-smart-science-based humans. If I were to post quotes from holy men (the ultra-smart-religion based humans), i'd get laughed at. I don't care what a bunch of science and political geeks had to say about religion. That tells us nothing but their opinion on it.
That whole comment goes through all kinds of trouble to try to disprove the "creator" argument. Then it belittles it's own purpose by saying essentially "I can explain this, but I can't explain that". Great job. Quote:
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#42
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However we do not fully understand them. |
#43
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And on top of that, those people ignore the obviousness that the idea of everything just coming together just right at just the right time to create life as we know it is a hundred times more impossible. [/B][/QUOTE]
Seems to me that everything DID come together at just the right time to create "life". The question is whodunnit. Ron.
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Good s**t happened. 69 was worth the wait. '92 stock semi-pristine ebony - 160K '96 Grand Caravan - 240K '01 Miata SE - 79K '07 Chrysler Pacifica - 60k - future money pit. |
#44
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i'll solve this for you - I am your god.
here's a puzzle: read the Bible and try to explain the dinosaurs.
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Alan 1987 928 S4 (Black) SOLD! 1997 SVX LSi (Ebony) SOLD! 2005 Legacy GT (Silver) [Cobb Stg 2+] SOLD! 1987 928 S4 (Black) SOLD! 2005 Forester XT Premium (Crystal Gray Metallic) SOLD! 2008 Lancer Evolution X MR (Apex Silver) [Cobb Stg 1+] 2015 Outlander Sport 2.4GT AWD (Mercury Gray) 2013 G37xS (Obsidian Black) |
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