ECUTune, for those of you that have/had it

[GreenMarine]

Originally Posted by longassname

3.316 liters = 202.4 inches³


HP * 793,000
BMEP = -------------- PSI
RPM * CID

230 * 793,000
BMEP = -------------- PSI = 161 psi
5600 * 202.4


309 * 793,000
BMEP = -------------- PSI = 216 psi <--has never been accomplished
5600 * 202.4

309 * 793,000
BMEP = -------------- PSI = 183 psi <--a reasonable #
6600 * 202.4


If the prototype made 309hp at 5600 rpms it would have made the news and been the talk of the industry. No manufacturer has ever gotten a mep of 216psi though honda did come close with a jdm s2000 at 8500 rpms where thermal efficiencies are higher. While ther is no way it made 309hp at 5600 rpms, if the prototype had different cams it could make 309 crank horse power at a higher rpm. There is a plot of volumetric efficiency in the overview of the induction control system in section 2.7 page 8 of the factory service manual which does not match the production SVX. It indicates a peak volumetric efficiency of 97% at 5200 rpms which would indicate a torque peak at 5200 rpms. If we presumed that plot of ve matches the prototype svx then we could project it having a peak power of 309 hp at 6600 rpms. This would mean the prototype had different cams. I would be inclined to believe that.

Oooo, Longass I think you missed your calling... I haven't heard talk like that since the last time I was on the Engineering side of campus... Hahaha... You're right though. I forgot to mention that the cams were different too ... Great explanation though! I know lots of people won't understand it, so they'll just have to trust ya, but I understand it just fine... Man, I can't wait to squeeze more power outta my engine... More power will come after it is rebuilt though... For now, the Stage 1 provides all the torque I need...

Thanks again Longass for the Stage 1... It's made driving around town, changing gears and running wide open alot more smoother, torquier, and I'll be damned if my car doesn't sound different... I know it likes to do it's rumbly "backfire" even more now That always turns heads...

~ Chris

[SVXRide]

Originally Posted by Suby Fan

pissst... check the mod mainia fourms i believe there is some one running a 300 hp eg33 it just runs like **** at idle he is on the NASIOC fourms

John,
You're talking about RallyBob's car, which is putting out 275 hp at the wheels (roughly 340 at the crank since he's running a 5 spd). My comment was relative to 300 at the crank (~200ish at the wheels).
-Bill

[SVXRide]

Originally Posted by GreenMarineSVX

I could believe that... I mean it feels about like 250hp. And considering I've been Autocrossing WRXs and STi's for the last 5 years, I can tell the difference... On the 300hp note, I have some VERY VERY interesting information to release... Now I'm not sure who's going to believe me but the point is that I believe the source and when you think about it, it'll start to make sense...

I went over to SOuthern States Subaru just about an hour ago to get my new Strut Top Hats. While there picking them up I ran into the Head Service Tech, a guy named Quincy. He has worked for Subaru longer than most college students have been alive (but not me cause I'm old ) and he actually owns an SVX. We got talking about my suspension noise (he thinks that it is my endlinks bill, waiting to hear about yours) and that eventually turned into talk about the ECUTune Stage 1 that I just did...

That's when he sprung the suprise of the century on me when he said, "You know the origional prototype SVX had 309hp right?"...

WHAT?!?!

He said that he was there when they brought the prototype over to the states for testing in the north and after testing it they decided to "detune it" because american drivers would hurt themselves and try to sue... I thought this was a little stupid, but when you think about it it kinda makes sense... Subaru didn't put a 5 MT in the SVX because they didn't have a manual that could handle the power reliably. Now the 5 MT in the WRX is essentially the same gearbox that they had back then. But it's limit of power and torque are rumored to be right around 300hp. Hmmm, that causes an eyebrow to raise alittle... Then when you think that we DON'T get the Spec. C over here. And all the other engines that are detuned, it starts to make alittle sense... Quincy said that he remembers the parts that they swapped out to take the EG33 from 309hp to 230hp... They swapped the O2 sensors, the fuel injectors and remapped the ECU... I asked him how hard would it be to get the engine up to it's original 309hp figure? He said, get some good wide band O2 sensors, get some larger injectors and have the ECU reprogramed...

So if someone is good with ECU programming, we are essentially sitting on an engine with great potential. Maybe that's one reason why the engine is just so damn bullet proof today. It's only producing about 2/3 the power that it was originally designed to produce...

Anyone else buy into this?? Like I said, I believe quincy because he's worked for Subaru forever, he owns an SVX and he was there when the prototype SVX came to the states...

Learn something new every day huh



Those numbers look pretty accurate. Good job on having the patience to sit down and plug some numbers! I got so sick of that when I was in Engineering here at NC State ... I'd say that's about as close as we are going to get while "guessing"... But it looks like a good guess

~ Chris

Chris,
Check my Photo Album (new version of the Lockers) for a pic of the heavy duty, adjustable front sway bar end link. Please ignore the attachment tab on the strut housing (that's what happens when you "go large" on the front bar without adding a full weld bead on the tab).
-Bill

[GreenMarine]

Where are the new lockers Bill?? Ever since the old ones disapeared I haven't been bothered to try and figure out where the new ones are...

~ Chris

[SVXRide]

Originally Posted by GreenMarineSVX

Where are the new lockers Bill?? Ever since the old ones disapeared I haven't been bothered to try and figure out where the new ones are...

~ Chris

Chris,
Go up to the upper right hand corner of the network page and click on "Photo Post"
-Bill

[GreenMarine]

Bill... you've got email...

~ Chris

[Nomake Wan]

Originally Posted by SVXRide

Chris,
Just be careful, it wasn't all that easy RallyBob's engine had WebCam custom high lift cams, gutted EG33 lifters (converted to solid with shims), and plenty of Bob's custom headwork on the I and E ports.
-Bill

That was the Phase I engine that made something like 375 BHP. I'm talking about the one that was just intake, exhaust, injectors and an ECU that made 275 HP.

[SVXRide]

Originally Posted by Nomake Wan

That was the Phase I engine that made something like 375 BHP. I'm talking about the one that was just intake, exhaust, injectors and an ECU that made 275 HP.

Ah, the first version that had the standalone, custom exhaust headers, custom intake, and 6 MSD coils 212Hp at the wheels = approx 265 - 250 Hp at the crank (running a 5 spd and assuming 15-20% loss through the drivetrain...290 if we assume 27%). The latest version:

The EG33 powered RS 2.5 finally got dynoed and tuned today. I just got off the phone with the car owner Jack, and the numbers were very nice IMO. I'll try to get him to print out a dyno plot to post here, but for the moment this is what we have.

285 w/hp @ 6200-6500 rpms (flat line) (Dynapack) (up 65 whp)
248 w/torque @ 5500 rpms (up 33 wheel ft lbs)

The nice thing is the hp and torque curves below these rpms are virtually unchanged from before. In other words it did not lose 'down low' in order to gain 'up high'. Although peak power occurred between 6200-6500 rpms, there was less than a 10 hp variation from 6000-7600 rpms. It was run up to 8000 rpms during dyno pulls. Previously the power fell off after 5700 rpms (old power peak with stock cams).

So a quick recap:

*Stock EG33 shortblock with 140,000+ miles on it.
*Heads have .5 mm oversized valves, and a bit of bowl porting and blending.
*Conversion from hydraulic buckets to solid buckets.
*Web cams, stock cores welded/reground. .444" intake lift/.460" exhaust lift/
244* @ .050" duration, stock lobe separation angle.
*Heads milled 1 mm for compression.
*Custom cold air box.
*Custom headers, 1.75" primaries 31-31" long, into 2.5" collectors, both
banks merged into 3" main exhaust, one racing muffler.
*Autronic ECU

is putting out 356 - 335 Hp at the crank (again with 15-20% loss....390 with 27%)
-Bill

[NeedForSpeed]

If a 5mt SVX makes 168 whp with a rating of 230, or 73%, then a whp of 212 is equivalent to an engine rating of 290. That 212 whp was at 5700, the engine was still running stock cams.

Originally Posted by SVXRide

Ah, the first version that had the standalone, custom exhaust headers, custom intake, and 6 MSD coils 212Hp at the wheels = approx 265 - 250 Hp at the crank (running a 5 spd). The latest version:

The EG33 powered RS 2.5 finally got dynoed and tuned today. I just got off the phone with the car owner Jack, and the numbers were very nice IMO. I'll try to get him to print out a dyno plot to post here, but for the moment this is what we have.

285 w/hp @ 6200-6500 rpms (flat line) (Dynapack) (up 65 whp)
248 w/torque @ 5500 rpms (up 33 wheel ft lbs)

The nice thing is the hp and torque curves below these rpms are virtually unchanged from before. In other words it did not lose 'down low' in order to gain 'up high'. Although peak power occurred between 6200-6500 rpms, there was less than a 10 hp variation from 6000-7600 rpms. It was run up to 8000 rpms during dyno pulls. Previously the power fell off after 5700 rpms (old power peak with stock cams).

So a quick recap:

*Stock EG33 shortblock with 140,000+ miles on it.
*Heads have .5 mm oversized valves, and a bit of bowl porting and blending.
*Conversion from hydraulic buckets to solid buckets.
*Web cams, stock cores welded/reground. .444" intake lift/.460" exhaust lift/
244* @ .050" duration, stock lobe separation angle.
*Heads milled 1 mm for compression.
*Custom cold air box.
*Custom headers, 1.75" primaries 31-31" long, into 2.5" collectors, both
banks merged into 3" main exhaust, one racing muffler.
*Autronic ECU

is putting out 356 - 335 Hp at the crank
-Bill

[SVXRide]

Originally Posted by NeedForSpeed

If a 5mt SVX makes 168 whp with a rating of 230, or 73%, then a whp of 212 is equivalent to an engine rating of 290. That 212 whp was at 5700, the engine was still running stock cams.

Ron,
Yeah, I fell back on my old "15-20% loss for a 5spd" figure instead of 27%
-Bill
p.s. I went back and edited my earlier post

[b3lha]

Originally Posted by GreenMarineSVX

On the 300hp note, I have some VERY VERY interesting information to release... Now I'm not sure who's going to believe me but the point is that I believe the source and when you think about it, it'll start to make sense...

I went over to SOuthern States Subaru just about an hour ago to get my new Strut Top Hats. While there picking them up I ran into the Head Service Tech, a guy named Quincy. He has worked for Subaru longer than most college students have been alive (but not me cause I'm old ) and he actually owns an SVX. We got talking about my suspension noise (he thinks that it is my endlinks bill, waiting to hear about yours) and that eventually turned into talk about the ECUTune Stage 1 that I just did...

That's when he sprung the suprise of the century on me when he said, "You know the origional prototype SVX had 309hp right?"...

WHAT?!?!

He said that he was there when they brought the prototype over to the states for testing in the north and after testing it they decided to "detune it" because american drivers would hurt themselves and try to sue... I thought this was a little stupid, but when you think about it it kinda makes sense... Subaru didn't put a 5 MT in the SVX because they didn't have a manual that could handle the power reliably. Now the 5 MT in the WRX is essentially the same gearbox that they had back then. But it's limit of power and torque are rumored to be right around 300hp. Hmmm, that causes an eyebrow to raise alittle... Then when you think that we DON'T get the Spec. C over here. And all the other engines that are detuned, it starts to make alittle sense... Quincy said that he remembers the parts that they swapped out to take the EG33 from 309hp to 230hp... They swapped the O2 sensors, the fuel injectors and remapped the ECU... I asked him how hard would it be to get the engine up to it's original 309hp figure? He said, get some good wide band O2 sensors, get some larger injectors and have the ECU reprogramed...

So if someone is good with ECU programming, we are essentially sitting on an engine with great potential. Maybe that's one reason why the engine is just so damn bullet proof today. It's only producing about 2/3 the power that it was originally designed to produce...

Anyone else buy into this?? Like I said, I believe quincy because he's worked for Subaru forever, he owns an SVX and he was there when the prototype SVX came to the states...

Learn something new every day huh

Here is a article and photo of the prototype being tested in the USA:
http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/show...42&postcount=6

[SVXRide]

"butch rear spoiler"
-Bill

[NeedForSpeed]

Thanks Phil! Do you know what paper that was found in? I wish that grill would have made production. Oops, don't want to hijack this great thread with a grill statement, but the article itself seems to give the idea that the test car was not over 300 hp.

Originally Posted by b3lha

Here is a article and photo of the prototype being tested in the USA:
http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/show...42&postcount=6

[GreenMarine]

Originally Posted by SVXRide

Ah, the first version that had the standalone, custom exhaust headers, custom intake, and 6 MSD coils 212Hp at the wheels = approx 265 - 250 Hp at the crank (running a 5 spd and assuming 15-20% loss through the drivetrain...290 if we assume 27%). The latest version:

The EG33 powered RS 2.5 finally got dynoed and tuned today. I just got off the phone with the car owner Jack, and the numbers were very nice IMO. I'll try to get him to print out a dyno plot to post here, but for the moment this is what we have.

285 w/hp @ 6200-6500 rpms (flat line) (Dynapack) (up 65 whp)
248 w/torque @ 5500 rpms (up 33 wheel ft lbs)

The nice thing is the hp and torque curves below these rpms are virtually unchanged from before. In other words it did not lose 'down low' in order to gain 'up high'. Although peak power occurred between 6200-6500 rpms, there was less than a 10 hp variation from 6000-7600 rpms. It was run up to 8000 rpms during dyno pulls. Previously the power fell off after 5700 rpms (old power peak with stock cams).

So a quick recap:

*Stock EG33 shortblock with 140,000+ miles on it.
*Heads have .5 mm oversized valves, and a bit of bowl porting and blending.
*Conversion from hydraulic buckets to solid buckets.
*Web cams, stock cores welded/reground. .444" intake lift/.460" exhaust lift/
244* @ .050" duration, stock lobe separation angle.
*Heads milled 1 mm for compression.
*Custom cold air box.
*Custom headers, 1.75" primaries 31-31" long, into 2.5" collectors, both
banks merged into 3" main exhaust, one racing muffler.
*Autronic ECU

is putting out 356 - 335 Hp at the crank (again with 15-20% loss....390 with 27%)
-Bill

I need to find someone to build my engine like this. Or atleast source all the parts for me so I can do the build after I graduate!! That is exactly the sort of power I want... Nothing more...

8,000rpm!!! On the stock block!!! So stock rods, stock pistons?? I am rather suprised... I think when I build mine I'll definitely be building the bottom end. But it makes me feel better now, hearing that atleast the bottom end can take that kinda abuse

Originally Posted by b3lha

Here is a article and photo of the prototype being tested in the USA:
http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/show...42&postcount=6

Oh man, Roumors confirmed... It says right there that "atleast 300bhp in European specification, performance will be startling"... I'm gonna have to go talk to quincy nest time I'm at southern states... He was actually there for the testing!!

~ Chris

[NeedForSpeed]

If Chris is at 183 with 5MT, Stebro and programming, and RallyBob at 212 whp with 5MT and major changes from stock, both with stock cams.

Any guess as to how much the header/race exhaust contributes to the power, coils, different intake box, standalone, etc. Where is that power coming from, still at 5700 rpms?

Originally Posted by NeedForSpeed

Chris, Bill, do these numbers sound reasonable?

Stock 4EAT SVX, 30% loss: 70% of 230 equals 161 stock hp
Stock 5MT SVX, 27% loss: 73% of 230 equals 168 5mt hp
Stock 5MT with stebro dyno baseline: 175 hp
S1V5 5MT with stebro dyno result: 183 hp

So, 5mt adds 7 hp to the wheels, Stebro adds 7 hp, and S1V5 programming adds another 8hp. Solid gains totalling a significant 22hp

Sound reasonable?