Thread for Shadow about a higher power

[Alycone]

Originally posted by Shadow248
To make it simple, let's take your statement "atheists do not believe in a higher power" if you believe that that is what makes Atheism not a religion, then I can say "Christians do not believe in the absence of a higher power"...so then you would have to call christianity not a religion.

Was that meant to give me a headache?
I'm afraid I don't follow the reasoning. Oh wait, after bothering to go back and read all the other stuff, I do. And it still gives me a headache.

I'm not sure I want to get involved in this thread, but it's my understanding that atheists can be moral relativists or moral absolutists, a belief in right and wrong doesn't require a belief in god (or the supernatural or the divine or the spiritual). I suppose you could try to argue that secular humanism has a set of values and is therefore a religion, but that seems to be stretching the definition of religion so wide as to make the word meaningless.



This atheist is gonna have to agree with Boondock and Burgundy on this one.

[Landshark]

Originally posted by Alycone


Was that meant to give me a headache?
I'm afraid I don't follow the reasoning. Oh wait, after bothering to go back and read all the other stuff, I do. And it still gives me a headache.

I'm not sure I want to get involved in this thread, but it's my understanding that atheists can be moral relativists or moral absolutists, a belief in right and wrong doesn't require a belief in god (or the supernatural or the divine or the spiritual). I suppose you could try to argue that secular humanism has a set of values and is therefore a religion, but that seems to be stretching the definition of religion so wide as to make the word meaningless.



This atheist is gonna have to agree with Boondock and Burgundy on this one.

i like pizza.

[Andy]

Originally posted by Landshark


i like pizza.

[NapaBavarian]

Originally posted by Landshark


i like pizza.

I like trucks

[Landshark]

this thread makes baby jesus cry.

[b3lha]

Look. I-- I'd had a lovely supper, and all I said to my wife was, 'That piece of halibut was good enough for Jehovah.'

[Rotorflyr]

Originally posted by Shadow248

the Ten Commandments would have no meaning, and therefore would be just like any other words that could possibly be on a wall. So why make a big deal out of it?

Simple,
It goes back to our forefathers intetion of seperation of church and state.
The Ten Commandments don't belong on PUBLIC display in GOVERNMENT buildings. If (since this seems to keep coming back to a courthouse for some reason) a Judge want's to hang a copy of the commandments, or a cross on the wall of his private chambers, that's his business.

As already stated, if the commandments are on PUBLIC display at a GOVERNMENT building, the the Koran, the Torah, Hindu text (sorry don't know what they would actually be called) and any and every other religion's (including those of the "Satanic" faith)text's should be as well.

For the comment of a lack of display being a display of the "Atheist" religion, that's just rediculous......reguardless of the "legal" definiton of a religion, Atheism is NOT a religion and therefore has no "Icons"

Originally posted by Shadow248


What I don't understand is why it's such a big deal.

I suggest you study WHY our country's forefathers wanted to seperate church and state. That will provide your answer.

- Jim

Originally posted by Shadow248

With all that was said in the Descartes thread, I don't see any point in saying much more. He's a bit nutty, but he has some points.

This one is the best:

The first theory that I will explore is Descartes’ idea that he is a “thinking thing”(49). This is accurate as the only thing a person can truly be sure of is it’s self. The external world is full of illusions witch can make it difficult to see the truth of reality. It is better to think of the human mind as a computer. All the computer knows is input data and the input data makes up the entirety of the computers existence. Thus for a machine what we call virtual reality is the same as reality. This concept conveys to the human mind, as we are build out of external senses. Ergo the only thing we are sure of existing is our mind.

.

Basically the same thing that Kant said. I'm going to use Ayn Rand to layeth the smack down on this idea when I get off work.

- Jim

[mohrds]

Originally posted by NapaBavarian

I like trucks

I like raw furry dawgs with hooked up scoops.

[SubaSteevo]

Originally posted by mohrds


I like raw furry dawgs with hooked up scoops.

It makes them fAstAr!!!!

[Whoru465]

Originally posted by b3lha
Look. I-- I'd had a lovely supper, and all I said to my wife was, 'That piece of halibut was good enough for Jehovah.'

STONE HIM!

[Shadow248]

Originally posted by Alycone
I'm not sure I want to get involved in this thread, but it's my understanding that atheists can be moral relativists or moral absolutists, a belief in right and wrong doesn't require a belief in god (or the supernatural or the divine or the spiritual). I suppose you could try to argue that secular humanism has a set of values and is therefore a religion, but that seems to be stretching the definition of religion so wide as to make the word meaningless.

Look, I'm not disagreeing with you...but just pointing out that the law does. It doesn't matter what is right or wrong here...what matters is what THE LAW says is right and wrong.

Originally posted by Rotorflyr
Simple,
It goes back to our forefathers intetion of seperation of church and state.
The Ten Commandments don't belong on PUBLIC display in GOVERNMENT buildings. If (since this seems to keep coming back to a courthouse for some reason) a Judge want's to hang a copy of the commandments, or a cross on the wall of his private chambers, that's his business.

As already stated, if the commandments are on PUBLIC display at a GOVERNMENT building, the the Koran, the Torah, Hindu text (sorry don't know what they would actually be called) and any and every other religion's (including those of the "Satanic" faith)text's should be as well.

For the comment of a lack of display being a display of the "Atheist" religion, that's just rediculous......reguardless of the "legal" definiton of a religion, Atheism is NOT a religion and therefore has no "Icons"

>shakes head< Alright people this is getting ridiculous. I've already said 50 times now IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT WE THINK. In this case, it only matters what the law says. You can't just say "regardless of the legal definition" like that doesn't matter and what you think is more important. When it comes down to it, what anybody here thinks is pointless. What matters is what the law says. The law says Atheism is a religion. Unfortunately in some cases, lawyers have been able to bend the law to make themselves some cash. Therein lies my problem.

Also, please understand "The Separation of Church and State" before you start using it freely in debate. So far NO ONE in this argument has used it validly in any comment. The law DOES NOT...DOES NOT guarantee the absence of religion in government. It does the opposite...guaranteeing the absence of goverment in religion. Meaning the government cannot step in and tell churches and members of the church what they should believe.

Actual Text: http://www.house.gov/Constitution/Amend.html

For the record - I agree that Atheism is different than christianity in that it does not involve a higher power, however the way we treat atheism is unfair. Therefore we either need to establish Atheism as a religion in all cases, or include "secular beliefs" in with religions. Because to me it is you religion, and you (as an atheist) removing all my religion's symbols IS pushing your beliefs on me. That's a violation of my rights, and therefore unconstitutional.

Also for the record - I would have no problem with having all religions represented in a case like the courtroom one. To me all is better than none.

[Landshark]

Originally posted by Shadow248
Therefore we either need to establish Atheism as a religion in all cases, or include "secular beliefs" in with religions. Because to me it is you religion......

so the lack of religion is a religion???

i can't remember ever seeing an atheist church or atheist clergy.

[NapaBavarian]

Originally posted by Landshark
i can't remember ever seeing an atheist church or atheist clergy.

We keep them with our god

>>>not athiest<<<