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  #16  
Old 04-03-2010, 02:02 PM
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Hold on for just a second, but what is this relay click thing? I've been having starting issues with the click and having to turn the key back and forth rapidly to start.
--
Nevermind.
http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/show...tarting+issues
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Last edited by NikFu S.; 04-03-2010 at 02:13 PM.
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  #17  
Old 04-05-2010, 06:11 AM
sowise sowise is offline
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Re: car wont start...someone please help

Quote:
Originally Posted by jman050 View Post
thanks for the help from everyone and sorry for my inconsiderate time period in between posts. Been working 60 hours a week and really hard to get much of a look at my car. Anyway the fuel pump is fine, fuel filter is fine, MAF is fine, crank position sensor is fine, timing belt is lined up correctly, the relays seem to be fine as the starter is getting power but still no plug firing. The fuses are all fine. And NO codes whatsoever. Is there anything im missing???
I did a quick check but didn't find a test procedure for this part though you could do some poking for voltages and continuity. If you are getting no spark I would think it could be the ignitor. (see pic). There is a small chance I may have a spare you could use to see if it would work.
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  #18  
Old 04-05-2010, 01:21 PM
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Re: car wont start...someone please help

Quote:
Originally Posted by sowise View Post
I did a quick check but didn't find a test procedure for this part though you could do some poking for voltages and continuity. If you are getting no spark I would think it could be the ignitor. (see pic). There is a small chance I may have a spare you could use to see if it would work.
A very good possibility has been pointed out above.

The igniter is basically a quite simple device and comprises what amounts to six solid state relays, assembled within a single package. These relays are necessary, because the ECU is not capable of switching the relatively high currents, involved in supplying the low voltage required to trigger the on-plug ignition coils.

Each solid state relay is switched via a positive signal from the TCU and it would be possible to test the igniter by applying voltage to the input terminals and then checking the outputs. Precaution and understanding would be required.

With the igniter in place, it should be possible to confirm a pulse at each of the outputs to the coils. N.B. The output circuits ground the ignition coils and therefore the negative supply to the coils.

There has been mention of faults occurring in the positive supply to the coils. It appears that there is a concealed connection within the loom which supplies the left and right hand banks. There should be a constant positive supply to all coils when the ignition switch is on.

P.S. On checking back through the thread, it would appear that you have not confirmed that you have sparks.
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Last edited by Trevor; 04-05-2010 at 01:29 PM. Reason: P.S. Added
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  #19  
Old 04-09-2010, 01:06 AM
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Re: car wont start...someone please help

Quote:
Originally Posted by sowise View Post
I did a quick check but didn't find a test procedure for this part though you could do some poking for voltages and continuity. If you are getting no spark I would think it could be the ignitor. (see pic). There is a small chance I may have a spare you could use to see if it would work.
I may have to take you up on that offer. I have to talk with my mechanic. Last he told me he was trying to find the ignitor box for a spare in the junkyard, but im assuming he was unsuccessful. If he has not found one yet and he has one i would even be willing to put a down payment on the thing so u know i wont run away lol.
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  #20  
Old 04-09-2010, 01:09 AM
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Re: car wont start...someone please help

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor View Post
A very good possibility has been pointed out above.

The igniter is basically a quite simple device and comprises what amounts to six solid state relays, assembled within a single package. These relays are necessary, because the ECU is not capable of switching the relatively high currents, involved in supplying the low voltage required to trigger the on-plug ignition coils.

Each solid state relay is switched via a positive signal from the TCU and it would be possible to test the igniter by applying voltage to the input terminals and then checking the outputs. Precaution and understanding would be required.

With the igniter in place, it should be possible to confirm a pulse at each of the outputs to the coils. N.B. The output circuits ground the ignition coils and therefore the negative supply to the coils.

There has been mention of faults occurring in the positive supply to the coils. It appears that there is a concealed connection within the loom which supplies the left and right hand banks. There should be a constant positive supply to all coils when the ignition switch is on.

P.S. On checking back through the thread, it would appear that you have not confirmed that you have sparks.
can someone please put this in electrical circuits for dummies terms... as in where i would actually test with my multimeter and what i would look for. Trevor....your making me feel dumb haha
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  #21  
Old 04-09-2010, 01:24 AM
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Re: car wont start...someone please help

Quote:
Originally Posted by jman050 View Post
can someone please put this in electrical circuits for dummies terms... as in where i would actually test with my multimeter and what i would look for. Trevor....your making me feel dumb haha
Sorry, you are into fairly deep water and there is a great deal of it between us. You will have to seek hands on help, from close by.
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  #22  
Old 04-09-2010, 05:56 AM
sowise sowise is offline
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Re: car wont start...someone please help

I checked and pretty sure I have a spare on my parts car. So let me know if you are wanting it for troubleshooting purposes. I know that subaruparts.com is selling them for about $250 dealer will probably charge around $330.

I am sure we can work something out but if it doesn't correct your issue I would like to get it back. If it does fix your issue then we can come to a fair price agreement. Up to you.
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  #23  
Old 04-12-2010, 04:53 PM
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Re: car wont start...someone please help

The engine is not showing any codes at all... could this be because I have a 92 ecu in a 94 car??? Im thinking its either the ignitor box or temp sensor. I may just get a temp sensor for the heck of it. How common is it for a sensor to go and not throw codes?
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  #24  
Old 04-12-2010, 05:25 PM
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Re: car wont start...someone please help

Depending on how something fails, it may or may not throw a code on an OBD-I system. And for some they wont show until a certain number of drive cycles.

Pardon me for asking, but you did in fact pull a coil, put a GROUNDED plug or tester in it, and have someone crank while you looked for the spark?

OR, since you never answered, did you try the starting fluid with no change in cranking behavior???
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  #25  
Old 04-12-2010, 05:32 PM
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Re: car wont start...someone please help

Also how common is it for the ignitor to go out completely causing no firing at all?
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  #26  
Old 04-12-2010, 05:37 PM
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Re: car wont start...someone please help

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCal LS-L View Post
Depending on how something fails, it may or may not throw a code on an OBD-I system. And for some they wont show until a certain number of drive cycles.

Pardon me for asking, but you did in fact pull a coil, put a GROUNDED plug or tester in it, and have someone crank while you looked for the spark?

OR, since you never answered, did you try the starting fluid with no change in cranking behavior???
No i have not actually pulled a coil. How would I ground a plug outside of the engine? or can i actually stick my multimeter inside the coilpack? and Ive heard that starter fluid was less than ideal for my engine and seeing as how i had fuel pressure i figured it would be a dead end. Is there anyway fuel would be getting past my fuel filter and not making it to my injectors? or could there be a fuse or something that could deny the injectors signal from the ecu?
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  #27  
Old 04-12-2010, 05:55 PM
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Re: car wont start...someone please help

Quote:
Originally Posted by jman050 View Post
No i have not actually pulled a coil. How would I ground a plug outside of the engine? or can i actually stick my multimeter inside the coilpack? and Ive heard that starter fluid was less than ideal for my engine and seeing as how i had fuel pressure i figured it would be a dead end. Is there anyway fuel would be getting past my fuel filter and not making it to my injectors? or could there be a fuse or something that could deny the injectors signal from the ecu?
SoCal is right first you need to do those things. Unbolt one coil and remove the plug then insert it into the coil. You can ground the thread portion to any metal part of the chassis or run a wire between one of the chassis ground bolts and the threads of the spark plug. Have someone try to start the car so the engine turns over. You should see a spark at the tip of the spark plug. If it sparks it means that coil pack and spark plug is good, and possibly your ignitor. If it doesn't spark then it could be that coil pack, or the ignitor, wiring issue, or the plug (though you would likely see damage to the plug before trying it). So then you would try your other coil packs you could have more than one failed one or you could verify none of them fire (you can use the same plug you removed for the first one). If none fire or you get to a certain point with no spark then I can send the ignitor like discussed in PM's.

You should try starter fluid to verify two things 1) there is air flow getting into the combustion chamber and 2) there is fuel getting to the combustion chamber.

Starter fluid sprayed into the intake should allow it to run at least as long as the fluid is present. The fluid has to be ignited by spark so it helps verify that too. If it cranks over runs then dies then it is likely your engine is starving for fuel and why you can't get it to run.

Hopefully I didn't type any errors in here I was trying to keep it basic and simple. Hopefully others will feel free to add to this or correct as necessary.
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  #28  
Old 04-13-2010, 03:39 AM
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Re: car wont start...someone please help

Quote:
Originally Posted by sowise View Post
SoCal is right first you need to do those things. Unbolt one coil and remove the plug then insert it into the coil. You can ground the thread portion to any metal part of the chassis or run a wire between one of the chassis ground bolts and the threads of the spark plug. Have someone try to start the car so the engine turns over. You should see a spark at the tip of the spark plug. If it sparks it means that coil pack and spark plug is good, and possibly your ignitor. If it doesn't spark then it could be that coil pack, or the ignitor, wiring issue, or the plug (though you would likely see damage to the plug before trying it). So then you would try your other coil packs you could have more than one failed one or you could verify none of them fire (you can use the same plug you removed for the first one). If none fire or you get to a certain point with no spark then I can send the ignitor like discussed in PM's.

You should try starter fluid to verify two things 1) there is air flow getting into the combustion chamber and 2) there is fuel getting to the combustion chamber.

Starter fluid sprayed into the intake should allow it to run at least as long as the fluid is present. The fluid has to be ignited by spark so it helps verify that too. If it cranks over runs then dies then it is likely your engine is starving for fuel and why you can't get it to run.

Hopefully I didn't type any errors in here I was trying to keep it basic and simple. Hopefully others will feel free to add to this or correct as necessary.
Quote:
Starter fluid sprayed into the intake should allow it to run at least as long as the fluid is present. The fluid has to be ignited by spark so it helps verify that too. If it cranks over runs then dies then it is likely your engine is starving for fuel or spark and why you can't get it to run.
Good post, fixed it for you.

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