4WS no go :-( - Page 2

ensteele · #16 03-11-2006, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by svxistentialist

Make it your business to find Trevor. He is a real nice guy.

As Phil says, he was upset by some intemperate comments, and is not too enamoured of the [probably very young] gung ho brigade, who know very little, but are arrogant in their ignorance.

Trevor knows his stuff, and is sorely missed on here.

Joe

I would agree with that, he is sorely missed.

nutshell · #17 03-14-2006, 03:15 PM

Got the car back. Bodywork now almost ding free.

The diagnostics on this vehicle are located by the throttle pedal, under the fuse box, not alongside the transmission tunnel.

Ran the Codes: came up 36 -Left/Right Lock exceeded.

As I thought, looks like the steering wheel was rotated when the rack was out being repaired.

Now the question is: how do we make sure it is centered correctly?

b3lha · #18 03-14-2006, 04:29 PM

The first thing that comes to mind is to disconnect the column from the rack, rotate it exactly one turn, reconnect and try again. With any luck you could find the correct position after a few turns in each direction. But this is clearly not the right way to do it.

You said that the light is not always on. Presumably it triggers when the steering angle exceeds what the sensor believes is full lock. So why not drive at 40km/h+ to activate the 4WS and then see how far you need to turn the wheel in each direction in order to trigger the light. It might give you an idea of where the sensor believes the lock positions to be. The centre position will be halfway between the two lock positions.

Finally, the correct procedure is undoubtedly in the JDM service manuals and will be known to Japanese dealers and probably also the Japanese SVX clubs and mailing lists. I've had success emailing them in the past, but I don't have any contacts at present. Try emailing some Japanese websites and with luck one of your messages will reach someone who can read English.

http://poyo.biz/svx/
http://groups.yahoo.co.jp/group/svx/
http://www.takenet.or.jp/~subaru/
http://obihirosubaru.co.jp/
http://www.asahikawasubaru.co.jp/
http://www.946subaru.co.jp/
http://www.phoenix-c.or.jp/subaru/

If you find the correct procedure, I'd love to know what it is. I guess that you probably set the wheel straight ahead and then zero the sensor somehow.

Good Luck

Phil.

AvPPoW · #19 03-14-2006, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensteele

I would agree with that, he is sorely missed.

Apparently, he's back...

oab_au · #20 03-14-2006, 05:29 PM

Be carfully turning the steering wheel when it is disconnected from the rack. The wiring to the controls on the column are wraped around the steering shaft, if you wind it around too far the wiring can tear off the shaft.

Harvey.

nutshell · #21 03-14-2006, 07:02 PM

I have arranged to take the car into the agent first thing tomorrow am so they can 'sort it out'.
After all, it was working fine until they 'fixed' it.

Hopefully they have all the manuals, in English, and so I trust I can report a positive result.

Btw: with the car stationery; if the wheel is turned all the way to the Right, the light stays out. If it's turned all the way to the Left, it comes on as the wheel reaches full travel. And with the light on, before moving off, the steering is ok - the wheel is centered.

I'll go for a run and see how far it has to move before failing "on the trot'"
Later:
Hmmm - very strange. At normal speeds, on normal roads, the light stayed out, unless I was turning hard left at an intersection. Initially, with the light out, the steering wheel was cocked about five degrees. The light stayed out at speed until I turned left - at an intersection, which requires more turns than usual - and came on.
I stopped, turned the engine off and restarted. The light stayed out, but the wheel was still cocked.
When the light came on again - at an intersection - I stopped and restarted.
This time the wheel stayed straight!

With the light out the car felt as though the back was working in corners; very flat and more precise than with the light on.

I will be very interested to hear what the agents have to say on the morrow.

Ian

paddlesnz · #22 03-14-2006, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b3lha

Finally, the correct procedure is undoubtedly in the JDM service manuals and will be known to Japanese dealers and probably also the Japanese SVX clubs and mailing lists. I've had success emailing them in the past, but I don't have any contacts at present. Try emailing some Japanese websites and with luck one of your messages will reach someone who can read English.Phil.

I'm a member of the Japanese SVX club and fluent in Japanese, so if you can't get the problem sorted, PM me and I'll post a question on the Japanese site.

The 4WS service manual is only in Japanese, so I doubt any NZ agents would have a copy.

nutshell · #23 03-15-2006, 01:01 AM

Thanks mate

floatingkiwi · #24 03-15-2006, 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nutshell

Got the car back. Bodywork now almost ding free.

The diagnostics on this vehicle are located by the throttle pedal, under the fuse box, not alongside the transmission tunnel.

Yes, what I meant was in the direction of the transmission tunnel - as in pull the panel directly off without moving it forward or back. Anyway, you've obviously got it.

b3lha · #25 03-15-2006, 03:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oab_au

Be carfully turning the steering wheel when it is disconnected from the rack. The wiring to the controls on the column are wraped around the steering shaft, if you wind it around too far the wiring can tear off the shaft.

Very true Harvey. I'd forgotten about the clockspring wiring.

The problem is that the steering was turned while the rack was disconnected, so the solution is to turn it back the opposite way. Zeroing the 4WS sensor to the current position will not be correct because the clockspring will be off centre too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nutshell

Btw: with the car stationery; if the wheel is turned all the way to the Right, the light stays out. If it's turned all the way to the Left, it comes on as the wheel reaches full travel. And with the light on, before moving off, the steering is ok - the wheel is centered.
<snip>
At normal speeds, on normal roads, the light stayed out, unless I was turning hard left at an intersection. Initially, with the light out, the steering wheel was cocked about five degrees. The light stayed out at speed until I turned left - at an intersection, which requires more turns than usual - and came on.
I stopped, turned the engine off and restarted. The light stayed out, but the wheel was still cocked.
When the light came on again - at an intersection - I stopped and restarted.
This time the wheel stayed straight!

So it looks like your wheel was turned to the left while the rack was disconnected - because you can exceed the left limit, but not the right limit. So maybe try disconnecting it and giving it one turn to the right.

The effect of the steering wheel being cocked is probably because the rear wheels do not automatically return to centre when the 4WS controller goes to error state. They just stay where they are. It might not be obvious to look at because the maximum rear steering angle is only a couple of degrees.

I've got some interesting info in my locker about the theory of how in-phase 4WS works. It's from a Mitsubishi service manual. Their system is hydraulic rather than electric, but the theory still applies to ours.
http://www.subaru-svx.net/photos/user.php?b3lha|33362

nutshell · #26 03-16-2006, 03:17 PM

The thot plickens:

Took the car into the agents... and after 4 hours deliberation they concluded the column was 150 degrees out (to the left), and that the Sensor on the column had failed! Of course, nothing to do with the earlier rack work!
Naturally they claim the sensor cannot be removed and repaired and is integral to the column. So they suggest we replace the column with a second hand one, which will (hopefully) have its Sensor working.

Meanwhile the vehicle is still very mobile, with the 4WS temporarily disabled.

hmmm

Ian

Btw: I spoke with Trevor. He is truly a font of knowledge

b3lha · #27 03-17-2006, 03:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nutshell

The thot plickens:
and after 4 hours deliberation they concluded the column was 150 degrees out (to the left), and that the Sensor on the column had failed! Of course, nothing to do with the earlier rack work!
Naturally they claim the sensor cannot be removed and repaired and is integral to the column. So they suggest we replace the column with a second hand one, which will (hopefully) have its Sensor working.

Meanwhile the vehicle is still very mobile, with the 4WS temporarily disabled.

hmmm

Ian

Btw: I spoke with Trevor. He is truly a font of knowledge

If they turned the column 150 degrees left then the steering wheel would now be at the 7 o'clock position when driving straight ahead. Unless they removed the steering wheel while changing the rack or rotated the outer sleeve of the column where the sensor is attached. Neither of which sound likely.

As they have examined the car, they are in a better position to say what is wrong with it than anyone else, but doesn't their conclusion sound a little strange to you?

If the sensor has failed then maybe it failed because it got turned 150 degrees past it's limit as a direct result of them installing the rack incorrectly? Perhaps you can use that argument if they try to make you pay them for fixing a problem which they themselves probably caused.

I had a look at the sensor on my car. Certainly the part underneath where the wires are connected is attached by bolts and would be easy to remove. The aluminium bit on top looks like it might be part of the column but that doesn't necessarily mean it can't be dismantled. Impossible to tell for sure without removing the column from the vehicle.

Phil.

nutshell · #28 03-17-2006, 11:56 AM

I guess "column" may not be the technically correct word to use to describe what is 150 degrees out of whack. Suffice to say something has gone seriously awry. Rest assured I shall be closely examining the replaced components. Aren't automobiles fun! :-)

nutshell · #29 03-24-2006, 06:37 PM

Yet more mystery

Took the vehicle in for a long and expensive analysis.

Here's the tech report.

"Check 4WS warning light coming on.
Plugged in select monitor and checked for fault codes. 15 and 21.
Carry out individual systems test, front steering showed incorrect settings.
Remove steering column and rest (sic), recheck. Fault still present.
Replace steering angle Sensor. Remove steering rack and reset.
Reassemble and clear codes. Road test."

After all that you might expect success. Alas - not so.

4WS now works fine, up to about 110 kph (two short freeway runs), then the light came on and the wheel cocked to the left as before. Stop, key off - restart - all ok. Until the next on ramp.

Ran the codes. ;-)
Shows zip, nada, blinks steady at regular intervals.

Any suggestions?

The one that comes to mind is to disable the 4ws by pulling the fuse, but that may work or not, and anyway, it defeats the purpose and does not fix the problem.

Rear axle speed sensor? [but no code alert]
I believe there's 4ws parts close by.
Ah, and it now 'clunks' at the rear when it settles and stops (with the 4ws active) - didn't do that before.

b3lha · #30 03-25-2006, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nutshell

Any suggestions?

First thing I would suggest is to drive it some more and see if you can get it to produce a code. Failing that you'll have to get them to hook up the select monitor again.

It seems to me that this "clunk" would be a good place to start searching for the problem.

Do you know the capabilities of the select monitor? Is there some sort of test function which would allow them to activate the 4WS while the car is up on stands without the requirement to drive at 40km/h?

Maybe PaddlesNZ can dig up some info from the JDM service manuals.

Phil.