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  #31  
Old 06-21-2003, 05:43 AM
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Trevor Trevor is offline
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Steering axis or king pin angle

Harvey mate, I am amazed by your statement in this thread as follows : -

06/18/03, Quote ---- I'll explain it better. Looking from the front of the car at the right side wheel. The steering axis or kingpin inclination, is a line drawn down from the top strut bearing, down through the bottom ball joint, to meet the ground in the centre of the tyre contact patch. This is the line that the wheel steers around.
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It is the fact that the line of the steering axis or king pin inclination does NOT meet the ground in the CENTRE of the tyre contact patch as you so exactly state that provides correct steering geometry. If what you state was true there would be no caster angle and no offset. In fact what you later describe would not take place.

In the usual set up i.e. a car with positive caster, the line of the king pin or steerin axis will meet the ground at a point ahead of the centre of the tyre contact patch so as to provide caster angle and will also be inside or outside the centre point to provide offset. I have looked at the drawing you have provided but this in no way corrects your statement and in fact illustrates your error in respect of offset.

Cheers, have a Cooper's. Trevor.
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  #32  
Old 06-21-2003, 07:14 PM
oab_au oab_au is offline
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Re: Steering axis or king pin angle

Quote:
Originally posted by Trevor
Harvey mate, I am amazed by your statement in this thread as follows : -

06/18/03, Quote ---- I'll explain it better. Looking from the front of the car at the right side wheel. The steering axis or kingpin inclination, is a line drawn down from the top strut bearing, down through the bottom ball joint, to meet the ground in the centre of the tyre contact patch. This is the line that the wheel steers around.
----------------------------------

It is the fact that the line of the steering axis or king pin inclination does NOT meet the ground in the CENTRE of the tyre contact patch as you so exactly state that provides correct steering geometry. If what you state was true there would be no caster angle and no offset. In fact what you later describe would not take place.

In the usual set up i.e. a car with positive caster, the line of the king pin or steerin axis will meet the ground at a point ahead of the centre of the tyre contact patch so as to provide caster angle and will also be inside or outside the centre point to provide offset. I have looked at the drawing you have provided but this in no way corrects your statement and in fact illustrates your error in respect of offset.

Cheers, have a Cooper's. Trevor.
Don't tell me ' I've made another fuggan error'. Though I did say "LOOKING FROM THE FRONT." Not from the side, from the top or back.

I am not interested where the caster line meets the ground, or the camber line, or the Ackerman angle is.

Just where the steering axis line meets the ground, in line with the center of the tyre contact patch. Caster has nothing to do with torque steer.

Harvey.
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  #33  
Old 06-22-2003, 12:56 AM
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Hi Harvey,

Not to worry as this was quite a difficult concept to put into words I agree and the reason for the diagram.

I have kept my old 1972 FF1 Subaru on the basis of it being the best basically engineered car I have come across. It has an ideal set up for front drive. There is no front wheel off set and no torque steer. This is achieved as a result of inboard front brakes which allow for an extreme dish in the wheels so that the steering axis can align with the for and aft centre line of the tyre contact patch. This gets over much of the torque steer problem as you have described and also reduces steering effort as well as unsprung weight. It does mean that the drive assembly also has to take a considerable reverse load on braking but this has proven to be no disadvantage although unusual in a " cooking model " car.

The FF1 has lots of other down to earth design features which indicate absolute common sense as the main consideration of the designers. All driving and front suspension stresses are isolated and concentrated within a tubular front sub frame. This can be unbolted from the body section and removed as an assembly which pretty well incorporates all the cars important wearing components. Removal can be achieved in less than an hour.

In point of fact the car sort of trundles along behind a traction unit ! Quite quickly too. 107 genuine MPH is even now not bad for a 1200 c. c. full sedan with vast luggage space.

It would be very easy to go one step further to facilitate a set up allowing one to drive in for repairs and in 15 minutes drive out again with a rental mechanicals in place. What a set up that would be for fleet vehicles etc. Working on the removed assembly would be a piece of piss as the saying goes. How about that for changing some of the hard to get at stuff on the SVX ! We can but dream.

How do you get a license to shoot a pistol in OZ , for the fourth fffing time ? What is the oil ?

Regards, Trevor.
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  #34  
Old 10-31-2007, 07:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svx_commuter View Post
This may be the early signs of the RWD failing. This happened to me and it was a bad transfer valve solenoid assy. Be careful as there may be times when the car will pull/steer you off the road. It was rather quick, the involuntary steering that is, for me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by oab_au View Post
I think what is going on in the US model is, as a number of people have said, is the transfer clutch not working. In this case when clutch does not drive the back wheels, for the usual reasons. The front wheels start to spin, when this happens the TCU does not turn the power down, it just applies the transfer clutch, to move some of the torque to the back wheels. Then as far as the TCU is concerned if the front wheels are still spinning, than all the wheels are spinning, we know this condition is allowed to happen, eg in snow etc.

So if the US model experiences this severe torque steer problem, then the transfer clutch is not working, as it would not be possible to spin the front wheels, under normal AWD conditions. It would be the same if the FWD fuse were inserted.

So the front diff WILL, have an unusual amount of torque shock loading under these conditions, that could cause damage to it. Thinking back, there have been a number of Front diff failures, maybe this has been the cause?????

Funny how these things all come together in the end, to show the cause.

Harvey.
Thank you both for posting this. I just posted a thread 'Torque Steer' then deleted it when I saw this thread's heading in the search. I am experiencing torque steer and I was wondering why this is the case. I only experienced it the last couple of days. This was right after my last dyno session in which the rear wheels did not want to turn at the same time the front ones did. So...this all points to the transfer clutch. I just want to say thanks for these old posts. They become very useful.

I am bumping this up just in case anyone else recently has experienced this problem. Now....I have to find out how to go about getting a bad transfer valve solenoid assy. *sigh* SUCKS!!!! Is this part expensive?
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  #35  
Old 11-01-2007, 12:50 AM
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What Harvey was saying in an impressive display of confused text, is that if the centre clutch is not engaging properly, the car is effectively front wheel drive and can exhibit the torque steer tendencies of a FWD car.

You can assess whether this could be your problem, by inserting the FWD fuse and run a test drive by way of comparison.

N.B. “a bad transfer valve solenoid assy.” will not necessarily be the cause if there is such a problem.
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  #36  
Old 11-01-2007, 07:22 AM
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Kevin did this problem start when you had your valve body replaced? Are you getting the TCU trouble code?(16 flashes of the "Power" light at startup)
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  #37  
Old 11-01-2007, 08:35 PM
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Chris,

To you alone I sincerely apologise.

After years of frustration, sorting out Harvey's messy unsound statements I regret that anger remains.

Please do not blame me for Harvey’s absence. For the record I correct the facts regarding the real crap.

N.B. Harvey’s swan song constitutes a thread, in which his knowledge was challenged by another very respected member. In a fit of pique, ego dented, he chose not to reply and has remained absent ever since.

Furthermore he has never to accepted responsibility for, and or tendered an apology, in respect of a sly thread he posted, directly challenging my honesty and integrity. Hence my anger.

Sincerely, Trevor.
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