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  #16  
Old 08-13-2009, 11:11 AM
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Re: Healthcare Bill Notes

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Originally Posted by demonsvx View Post
I would like to have a choice of keeping my private healthcare and a government plan both of which need to be affordable and create competetion between the two. Keep in mind this healthcare plan came out of nowhere much like the Patriot Act which took a lot of our rights away.
What you say cannot coexist.

Government has a whole different modus operandi than private insurance.

Private insurance takes money, invests it, gains from the investment, and tries to make money from that above the claims they have to pay out.

They have to keep their premiums low, and their investements keen, in order to maintain a profit margin, and keep their premiums low enough to not lose marketshare, and compete in the marketplace for clients.

If premiums go up, if pay-outs are stingy, if customer service sucks, or if their investments tank... they end up behind the 8 ball, compared to the competition, or just outright hurting for capital.

A government takes money, with no consideration for the ability of the taxpayers to pay... and then they wonder why tax receipts go down when the rate goes up. (they don't know the laffer curve...)

They don't have to offer good service, they don't invest in anything other than government bureaucracy and administrative waste. A business atmosphere that promotes stagnation, not innovation.

They control the regulations as to when, where, how and why they pay out... Medicare re-imbursements have gone down, and Medicare is going broke... All they do is print more money to cover more debt, to charge to the taxpayer later, and deflate the dollar.

Then there is the problem of government meeting the private market.

Everyone has to pay taxes... companies do not. Companies expense taxes as a cost of doing business, so their consumers/clients pay taxes.

If the government sees political gain in controlling and doling out health insurance coverage... and they DO, because the promise of it gains votes, and continued power... They will set the rules that restrict private insurance, and make it harder for private insurers to compete... by throwing regulatory monkey-wrenches into the machinery I mentioned above.

And when the private apparatus sputters, and tries to adjust, the people get transferred to government coverage.

Now employers don't have to pay health insurance benefits... nor do they have to raise wages to improve the buying power of their employees so that they can afford to shop for their own insurance... the employees just have more income taxes to pay for government coverage.

So some employers do that right away, and dump their health insurance plans off onto the government, lowering business costs, and giving the government more political power simultaneously...

The hold out employers now are at an instant disadvantage. They are still paying health benefits. Their employees are getting taxed just as much as the other companys' employees, and the standard of living is still being held down, and the health insurance providers are having to cut benefits, raise deductibles, raise premiums, and are generally getting pushed out of profitability.

So either the hold-out employers get pushed by their lower-business-cost competitors, and they drop health benefits, without giving as big of raises, either... and join that bandwagon...

Or the hold out employers see their cost of coverage go way up, and are forced into the same position that way...

Or the health insurance provider fails, and the hold out employer has to either get other very expensive coverage, or is mandated by government regulation to convert their employees to government coverage.

The government coverage will suck every ounce of air out of that market, and will assume control by attrition.

That is why Obama and his ilk can promise a choice, and not tell people that they'll be forced instantly into government coverage, when speaking in public, but when speaking to AFLCIO, SEIU, ACORN, and the rest, he can openly say that this is the road to single payer. Both cannot be true. The latter is the truth, and the former lie to the american public is just time-frame lip-service for political shielding.

THIS is what happens with nationalized industries... and IIRC either John Adams or James Madison said it at the beginning of this country. More freedoms have been destroyed by incremental encroachment on liberty over time, than violent usurpation.

The only difference is... incrementalism has been shifted into high gear in the last 6 months.
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  #17  
Old 08-13-2009, 02:19 PM
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Re: Healthcare Bill Notes

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Originally Posted by Green1995SVX View Post
Ben. I love you.
We all love the mentally impaired.

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  #18  
Old 08-13-2009, 02:21 PM
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Re: Healthcare Bill Notes

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Originally Posted by dcarrb View Post
It should be noted that the "findings" attached are not quotes or excerpts, but political commentary.

dcb
Like I said--go to the paragraph cited and read it yourself. So much for "political commentary". Oh, and I hope you are willing to pay the 23% of gross income that our friends overseas do. Drive on Nobama lover.

Lee
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Last edited by lhopp77; 08-14-2009 at 08:45 AM.
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  #19  
Old 08-14-2009, 10:14 AM
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Re: Healthcare Bill Notes

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Originally Posted by lhopp77 View Post
We all love the mentally impaired.

Lee
Insults just show how ignorant and childish you are for someone who has become nothing more than a bitter old man. Still cashing those socialist checks to paraphrase your own words "its my right, I served my country, it is owed to me"?

I hope when your "revolution" starts that no one throws rocks at your glass house as it will be quite a mess for my generation and my kids generation to clean up just like all the other messes your generation has left.
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  #20  
Old 08-14-2009, 11:32 AM
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Re: Healthcare Bill Notes

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Insults just show how ignorant and childish you are for someone who has become nothing more than a bitter old man. Still cashing those socialist checks to paraphrase your own words "its my right, I served my country, it is owed to me"?
Seems your memory is bad too. When have I EVER said that I collected SS?? If you will check back you find that I have said and still say that I have never drawn a SINGLE SS check. I did say that if I felt that I needed it, I would not hesitate to file for it as I paid in for many years.

Now tell me that you will NEVER file for SS after paying in for your entire life. Now don't try to tell me that it won't exist because of my generation. Just tell me--will you file for it or not?? Is that too difficult for you?

Lee
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  #21  
Old 08-14-2009, 06:19 PM
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Re: Healthcare Bill Notes

So you guys having a formal wedding or just eloping to Vegas ??
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  #22  
Old 08-14-2009, 07:28 PM
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Re: Healthcare Bill Notes

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Originally Posted by lhopp77 View Post
Seems your memory is bad too. When have I EVER said that I collected SS?? If you will check back you find that I have said and still say that I have never drawn a SINGLE SS check. I did say that if I felt that I needed it, I would not hesitate to file for it as I paid in for many years.

Now tell me that you will NEVER file for SS after paying in for your entire life. Now don't try to tell me that it won't exist because of my generation. Just tell me--will you file for it or not?? Is that too difficult for you?

Lee
I would doubt I'd need it Medicare Socialist Lee but since your generation used SS to pay for other bills and your tax cuts it wouldn't be here in 35 years which last I checked would be the earliest I'd be eligible for it should it still be there.

Then again, with all these "Death Committees" Rush and Beck keep talking about they may just save SS and Medicare for a year or two for me to collect. Who knows I might just need it by then with the weak dollar and debt that my generation was given by yours especially since I will be retired in exactly 20 years and 8 months.

Have a wonderful night MSL. Next time you insult me you might just need to see that doctor I'm paying for you to see.
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  #23  
Old 08-15-2009, 02:10 AM
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Re: Healthcare Bill Notes

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Originally Posted by benebob View Post
Next time you insult me you might just need to see that doctor I'm paying for you to see.
You didn't answer my direct question as I knew you wouldn't and also blame MY generation for the SS and medicaid problems as I said you would. How long have you been eligible to vote?? As to seeing the doctor, you migh be surprised who would need it.

Speaking of being bitter and angry--cheez. Heck, I am as happy and contented as anyone could be. Lovely home place in the mountains with great weather and view. Only have to work when I want to. Who could wish for more? Well, maybe I could dream about winning the lottery.

Have a nice day. And I mean it.

Lee
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  #24  
Old 08-15-2009, 02:12 AM
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Re: Healthcare Bill Notes

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Originally Posted by SoCal LS-L View Post
So you guys having a formal wedding or just eloping to Vegas ??
Yep, and honeymoon in Las Vegas..........New Mexico that is. Oh, wait---same sex marriages are not legal in NM.


Lee
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  #25  
Old 08-15-2009, 11:10 AM
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Re: Healthcare Bill Notes

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Originally Posted by lhopp77 View Post


You didn't answer my direct question as I knew you wouldn't and also blame MY generation for the SS and medicaid problems as I said you would. How long have you been eligible to vote?? As to seeing the doctor, you migh be surprised who would need it.

Speaking of being bitter and angry--cheez. Heck, I am as happy and contented as anyone could be. Lovely home place in the mountains with great weather and view. Only have to work when I want to, very good taxpayer paid medicare benefits. Who could wish for more? Well, maybe I could dream about winning the lottery.

Have a nice day. And I mean it.

Lee
What didn't you learn how to read. Your question was answered 100%. I simply placed the blame for the SS and Medicare issues right where it belongs. I wasn't voting when your congress and your presidents decided that it was a good general budget fund.

Oh and I fixed your post.

Still waiting for that thank you for that medicare benefit you so gladly accept!
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Last edited by benebob; 08-15-2009 at 11:13 AM.
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  #26  
Old 08-15-2009, 09:46 PM
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Re: Healthcare Bill Notes

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Originally Posted by demonsvx View Post
I would like to have a choice of keeping my private healthcare and a government plan both of which need to be affordable and create competetion between the two. Keep in mind this healthcare plan came out of nowhere much like the Patriot Act which took a lot of our rights away.
But Demon, you are believing the Right Wingers (Rush, perhaps?). You WILL be able to keep what ever health care insurance you currently have - you will have a choice, at perhaps a cheaper rate due to the competition ...

You are VERY correct about the Patriot Act - the last administration sure tried to pull a fast one there!!
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  #27  
Old 08-15-2009, 09:56 PM
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Re: Healthcare Bill Notes

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Originally Posted by newsvx View Post
But Demon, you are believing the Right Wingers (Rush, perhaps?). You WILL be able to keep what ever health care insurance you currently have - you will have a choice, at perhaps a cheaper rate due to the competition ...
But newsvx, you are believing the socialist left-wingers (Obama, perhaps?)

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  #28  
Old 08-15-2009, 10:49 PM
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Re: Healthcare Bill Notes

The choice will only last long enough for the government plan to push private enterprise out of profitability, and get them to abandon the business.

It is political maneuvering, and if you think public and private can co-exist and compete, you need to re-read my previous post.

This health insurance reform business is not that popular with real folks. If it were being pushed as instant government take-over, it wouldn't even have well meaning, but ultimately naive people like newsvx to keep bringing up the "choice" issue.

After the bill is passed, it will be too late to matter whether the "choice" is preserved. It is just lip-service until the bill is forced through, if they can force it through.

and I mean no disrespect to newsvx... but no government encroachment as big as government run, taxpayer funded health coverage, has ever been peaceably revoked. It becomes a monolithic bureaucracy. And no private vs public sector program competition has ever been played fair when government can seize money, and print money, and pass regulation on their private industry competition.
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  #29  
Old 08-16-2009, 06:21 AM
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Re: Healthcare Bill Notes

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Originally Posted by BoxerFanatic View Post
and I mean no disrespect to newsvx... but no government encroachment as big as government run, taxpayer funded health coverage, has ever been peaceably revoked. It becomes a monolithic bureaucracy. And no private vs public sector program competition has ever been played fair when government can seize money, and print money, and pass regulation on their private industry competition.
Again your facts just aren't right. There are currently more freeloaders like Lee already on Gov't programs than this proposed health care bill is planned to take on.

Ask Lee how much he likes his Medicare that you're paying for since he refuses to go buy health care on the free market he must be happy with it!
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  #30  
Old 08-24-2009, 03:56 PM
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Question Government run healthcare? Why not?

As a somewhat unrelated story: we (I, my wife and my daughter) have been camping this weekend at Pine Mountain Lake. The lake was great, but the overall experience has been ruined by many small nuisances.

1. Upon arrival, the rangers at the entrance gate direct you to the campground which is "about two miles down the road". The directions were right, but the turn to the campground is very easy to miss - sign for campground entrance is only visible from one direction, when you're going the other way from the main gate.

2. There is no one in charge on the campground itself. Once or twice a day, a ranger would drive by, and that's it. Given that they don't tell the campsite # when one makes a reservation, you have to stop at each and every campsite to check the signpost for a small "reserved" note. That was especially funny for people arriving after dark.

3. The campsite photos at the website for this park are lying. Only the small number of sites (sites 18-23) are large and flat as pictured. The rest of campsites is located on a steep cliff. With a 1-year old kid, we sure enjoyed watching her all the time so that she doesn't approach that cliff. They are also rather small; we had barely had enough space to park the Outback and set up the tent. Our neighbors were told by the phone that the site is surely large enough for two cars and two tents - they didn't fit and had to reserve one more site (fortunately, there was an unoccupied site next to them).

4. The restrooms are closed with a code lock. Of course, when we stopped at the main gate, nobody bothered to tell us access codes - we had to drive back to get them. Everybody arriving on the campground asked us about these codes - it seems that those rangers at the main gate keep forgetting to tell them to anybody.

5. Campground rules forbid washing dishes in restroom sinks. When asked where we could wash them, ranger pointed to RV hookup and suggested to use one of them. Since they are located on the campsites, water floods somebody's else campsite. Very nice. And what if all RV sites had RVs hooked up?

6. The parking on the largest beach, Marina, is restricted to homeowners on weekends. Other beaches, such as Dunn Court beach, are much smaller (with a swimming area of about 30' by 50') and the entrance is slippery and gooey clay, not sand. The rangers suggested to park along the street and walk to the beach. However, all the street has "No Parking" signs - I wouldn't be surprised if they disbursed parking tickets to turn extra profit. Did somebody tell us all that when we bought the beach parking permit on Friday? No.

7. Also, over the phone they quoted the price of this parking permit as $10, while they charged $15 upon arrival. When asked, they unapologetically said that "somebody has misinformed us". We saw them answering the phone about reservations, though, so this mysterious "somebody" was actually one of these rangers.

Now you'd ask why this rant gets into this thread. The reason is, Pine Mountain Lake campground is owned and operated by a private company, not by National Park Service, not by CA park authority. We have camped at many NPS and state operated parks and haven't encountered such level of ignorance.

Most if not all these gripes could have been addressed with little to no money: having campsite descriptions on website, telling the # of the reserved campsite while making a reservation, providing clear and specific directions at the main gate, etc. It looks, though, that the company is not interested in providing a decent service - all it tries to do is to get the money through deception and misrepresentation.

Now, could anyone from those vigorously opposing public health insurance option tell my why a private company has failed so miserably in comparison with government-operated campgrounds? If government-backed option worked so much better with campgrounds, why it can't work with health insurance?
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