My Copper Intake Mod

[elvis]

If the fan blows air from the outside AFTER the MAF, the charge will lean out and detonate the engine. Better wear a helmet to protect against all the shrapnel. The rubber and tape on the copper pipe should protect you from that, but you should probably should do something to the block and heads.

Just looked at the pics again. The fan is in the tube and the only hole is the one connected to the MAF. That reminds me of the joke about the people who will only sit in the front of the airplane - so the will get to the destination before the others...

Dan, how does putting the fan before or after the MAF make any difference at all? If you are pushing or pulling the air you are still bringing it past the MAF (which is a good thing so the fuel will get metered correctly - see above).

Take all the dumb tape off the pipe and have a fan blow against the outside. Maybe you'll get some result that way. I like the idea about the peltiers too. Those are piezo (sp?) devices that transfer heat using electricity, not a refrigerant. Line them up on the bare pipe, that would be interesting...

Originally Posted by SilverSpear

If the setup is pure rubber i would agree, but a plastic rubber, our stock one still heats to a certain extent...
As for the $$ it only costed me like $25 the whole thing...

I think you're missing the point. The copper is going to heat up the intake air more than the plastic will. You should put a piece of plastic and a piece of copper in the engine bay, drive around for a bit, and look at the temperature difference of them.

[wawazat??]

Originally Posted by SilverSpear

If the setup is pure rubber i would agree, but a plastic rubber, our stock one still heats to a certain extent...

Actually the snorkus is a combination of polypropylene (plastic sections) and thermoplastic vulcanizate which is a combination of polypropylene and a rubber particles. Both are very good insulators Danny.

If you could connect your system to the AC system on the car then you could generate some cooling, but not increase the air intake. Don't think it would offer any significant benefits hwoever.

Todd

[SilverSpear]

Originally Posted by thundering02

30-50 cfm for the good ones or approx 10% of what you need

Ok fan OUT...

Originally Posted by kuoh

The image of someone trying to suck molasses through a straw comes to mind for some reason. I'm guessing that if he goes ahead and tries to do a couple of test runs, especially at WOT, some fan pieces will end up in the cylinders.

KuoH

Fan definitely OUT...

Originally Posted by elvis

If the fan blows air from the outside AFTER the MAF, the charge will lean out and detonate the engine. Better wear a helmet to protect against all the shrapnel. The rubber and tape on the copper pipe should protect you from that, but you should probably should do something to the block and heads.

Just looked at the pics again. The fan is in the tube and the only hole is the one connected to the MAF. That reminds me of the joke about the people who will only sit in the front of the airplane - so the will get to the destination before the others...

Dan, how does putting the fan before or after the MAF make any difference at all? If you are pushing or pulling the air you are still bringing it past the MAF (which is a good thing so the fuel will get metered correctly - see above).

Take all the dumb tape off the pipe and have a fan blow against the outside. Maybe you'll get some result that way. I like the idea about the peltiers too. Those are piezo (sp?) devices that transfer heat using electricity, not a refrigerant. Line them up on the bare pipe, that would be interesting...

mmm, nice comments elvis, most probably the intake after the maf will be replaced back by the rubba thing. but i will keep the one before the maf going to the fender...

Originally Posted by wawazat??

Actually the snorkus is a combination of polypropylene (plastic sections) and thermoplastic vulcanizate which is a combination of polypropylene and a rubber particles. Both are very good insulators Danny.

If you could connect your system to the AC system on the car then you could generate some cooling, but not increase the air intake. Don't think it would offer any significant benefits hwoever.

Todd

But keeping the A/C on all the time would increase consumption and stress the engine more than normal. I will probably lose the copper thing on the level of the manifold and keep the other part...

[SilverSpear]

My Successful SETUP!! . I installed my New K&N E-0940 (I just gave my old one to my friend) and the copper box which made a huge difference of power...

GUYS U SHOULD DO A SIMILAR SETUP, TRUST ME ON THIS!!



The lower part of the box is made out of ordinary mosquito grill, to allow air to be sucked to the inside of the box which is very cold allowing the huge filter to suck it to the engine thus....



IT barely fitted the space, but it worked out!!!





How will this copper be cooled?

[SVXer95]

................

[TomsSVX]

WTF is with the copper obsession???

TOm

[SilverSpear]

I just wished you can give me little credit Tom. Wanna know the answer? try it yourself

No seriously as i said before, i was testing it for the last 10 days with the copper box. I had perviously another K&N installed there, but with the one i have now, i am enjoying the accelerations of a car swapped from AUT to MT.

[TomsSVX]

the only thing is... How do u know you are getting gain from that? I mean a butt dyno is not always accurate My only issue is that aluminum would be a much better choice

Tom

[SVXRide]

Danny,
You definitely get an A+ for efforts. Now to the physics of the issue at hand...
1. As has been previously mentioned, Cu is a great conductor of heat - not something you want to make your intake system out of unless you're going to insulate every last millimeter of it (which you're trying to do)
2. Compressible flow doesn't like sharp turns, as they will tend to trip the flow from laminar to turbulent flow...again, not something you want leading into the intake manifold. The stock "snorkus" is actually a pretty nice piece of engineering for the reasons Todd has already mentioned.
3. The areas inside the wheel well is not always an area of positive pressure, as Mychailo has confirmed with manometer measurements, thus your Cu box with K&N filter is probably not as efficient - flow wise - as you might think.

Now, on to suggestions:

1. Go back to the stock "snorkus" and insulate every exposed millimeter of surface area. This will give you a smoother flow path and keep the intake charge from being heated up by the convective/conductive heating associated with the engine
2. Turn your Cu box with the K&N filter so its opening is directly in line with the opening in your front bumper. Now, fabricate a piece of ducting (sure, make it out of Cu...) that mates to the inner surface of the bumper with a piece of flexible tubing so it doesn't break if the bumber hits something.
3. Wrap the Cu ducting inside the wheel well with a closed loop of tubing connected to a Nitrous bottle (similar to what is already commercially available to cool down FMICs on turbo'ed cars) and chill that ducting down like crazy.

-Bill

[SilverSpear]

Bill, the Cu box you see in the pics, is the only thing I installed from the whole project. I kept the instide plastic...

As for the Box, I set it in a way that is not affected by water if it comes in from the bumper opening. I don't wanna ruin my new K&N.
You also mentioned that the area iinside the fender is not of positive pressure. Is this knowledge still applies in my case? I mean with the opening in the bumper? I highly respect your knowledge, but i am getting great results.
As i said, the best bang per buck so far.

[shotgunslade]

SVXride:

You seem to be a fluids kind of a guy. That's what I do too, although from an HVAC engineering point of view. I'm interested in your take on the rather abrupt turns and the corrugations in the stock snorkus. I replaced my snorkus with Dayle's polished mandrel bent tube, but insulated it with several turns of pipe wrap. I think the insulative value of the pipe wrap combined with the low emissivity of the aluminum foil outer cover ought to minimize heat transfer to the incoming air charge. I've been meaning to run a CFD on the stock snorkus to see the effect of the corrugations on flow around that elbow into the throttle body. I don't know if the original designers had some intention to completely disrupt any kind of laminar flow coming around that turn into the throttle body or what. Maybe my smooth tube throws too much of the air flow to the outside of the turn so that the left throttle body gets much more air than the right. Maybe one of these days work will slow down enough so that I can put it into Fluent to get picture of the flow through the snorkus. I know that at WOT and 6000 rpm, you'd be pulling 1200 to 1500 fpm velocity through the tube, if the entire tube were in a laminar flow situation. With eddies restricting the free flow area, you'd get a lot more local velocity than that.

[Mike621]

Well, down there it certianly isnt getting heat from the engine bay. Temperature exchange isnt a big issure there, but air flow rate is.

Shotgunslade
wouldn't it be better to entirely seperate the intake from the throttle plates to the filter making two chambers so theres no cylinder interference when the butterfly at the back is closed

[mbtoloczko]

I had always figured that the purpose of the corrogations were to allow some flexiblity in the intake pipe so that when the engine rocks, it doesn't apply a large load on the intake pipe.